This is all very well Brian, but Putin is not an old man and even when he was not actively President he was pulling the strings.
He is old fashioned KGB and only sees the appearance of democracy on his borders as a threat.
There was a discussion on the Today programme this morning of just how much more the Russian subs are testing NATO and the same applies to aircraft and shipping.
He uses the 'threat' of other nations to reinforce his position at home and crushes dissent at home and abroad.
This is hardly a new policy but it works for the time being and it is the present that is worrying, no matter that he is not immortal.
Graham,
I partly agree, but I think the time has come for us 'expats' to start to 'make more noise' about our situation to those in power.....quite how I'm not sure, but it's something worth discussing on this platform.
Perhaps we need an eye-catching 'figure head' .(?) that is immediately identifiable.....like the masked 'Anonymous' 'V for Vendetta' man, so that we can be instantly recognised as that ex-pat group fighting to retain (and in the case of ex-pats outside the EU, for the reinstatement of their entitlement to annual pension increases wherever they live in the world) and I think we will need to protest outside parliament...This will take funds...are there any EU grants availible for this sort of thing, I wonder ?
And, no Graham, I'm not suggesting that you wear your 'Spiderman' outfit......
There are some who will tell you that they left the UK because the country was full of bloody foreigners! A witty riposte seems only to add to their bewilderment.
Nope, there is no passion except north of the border and i'm sure that will rumble on for five years when the lady will be in cahoots with a more credible lab leader. Time enough for Dave & co. to do their evil deeds whilst the luxury of a majority remains active.
The more intelligent ? As someone who boringly, is straight centrist I can't split them. The Powellite philosophies, sneakily respected by Maggie & Ted were for me visionist but seen as far too extreme to be contemplated ( a bit like appointing Geoff Boycott as the boss of the ECB !) though many across the political spectrum would no doubt wish some of his ideas had been put into action. Benn along with Shore, Heffer et al had so much to say but had to be stifled for the sake of moderation. Such a shame these legends are lacking today. The Benn diaries are fascinating reading (for me anyway) and the pity is we will never see the likes of these icons again, warts 'n all.
I miss the screaming peer, he made me laugh !
Putin will either not last or live forever. The flaw in dictatorships and personality led regimes like Russia at present is that very few dominant figures have ever had successors who could continue the same way. Historically, the Soviet Union began to weaken when Stalin died and Khrushchev took over but had none of the control of the USSR his predecessor had. Much of the remaining European and Caucasian area that was under Soviet influence now keeps more of a watchful eye on Russia than falls under their influence. The issue there is their economies are not yet strong enough for accession to the EU but in the fullness of time they might. Some economists have predicted that the combination of the demise of Putin and a low period for Russia could even lead to their wishing to join the EU. They have so far failed to create a bloc of real influence and with the likes of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Mongolia developing strong economies around oil, gas and coal but not wanting Russian intervention, they need to have other 'friends'. The Ukrainian mess seems to be more of an ethnic than economic situation that Russia is getting its hands dirty intervening in. With Putin gone, that could easily relax again and be resolved. Then the world may change a lot. Tension is the creation of those opposed to expansion because some are afraid of the potential threat of the success of some of the former east bloc nations. In truth, the UK is already terribly afraid of the success of the BRICS, but a massive, world dominating EU that overshadows any chance of the little UK retaining its status globally does not suit those with closed minds who we often accuse of having a fixation on glories of the past and empire. To some extent that may be right, but many more are afraid of the threat to their vested interests since they are high level business people outside of politics who like all others do not like stiff competition.
Yes. Right now there is every prospect of somebody who joined Labour as the better career choice rather than a political positions gaining leadership of that party. The difference between the neo-liberal parties is closing and actually they become interchangeable with little real difference. The only difference is what one party claims the other will do to scare the electorate into going one way or the other although the outcome is almost always going to be the same whoever wins. All of the passion is gone. Was Benn or Powell the more intelligent? Hard to say. Both were brilliant men beyond the range of many others. Powell was a classical scholar and linguist of the highest calibre and Benn was the best student of his generation at Oxford with a triple degree in politics, philosophy and economics, each of which he went on to become an expert on in his own right. There is nobody of their calibre whatsoever in parliament today. There are almost no working class Labour or Tories left, indeed two-thirds of all of them are private school educated, many of the rest grammar schools and a few only from ordinary state school backgrounds, there are also very few with notable degrees, especially those there used to be from mining and industrial backgrounds who fought their way up the greasy pole. There are now almost none with no qualifications other than activism through the ranks at all.
With all of that gone, there is an essentially homogeneous rather than the old
heterogeneous political world, thus any kind of real representation and understanding of all of society lost. The old qualities are more than lacking. No more firebrand union leaders, some of whom spouted X out of their XXs whilst others really knew what they were talking (shouting) about. No more impassioned highly informed people who sought knowledge and did not rely on teams of advisers to tell that what to say and think. No more David Sutch. Politics is now moribund.
I have heard the point made that the expansion of the EU will lead to more tension.
This is not a point of view I uphold. We need th remember that all the Eastern European countries used to be part of the Russian bear, which is under the leadership of Putin starting to snarl again.
That too. I am only 1948 vintage, but had the fist few years of my life in occupied Cologne during which time a shell of a city was being reconstructed and throughout those early 1950s people like my father were still finding, defusing and disarming large amounts of ordnance. He was one of an explosive recovery unit, after the disposal teams had their specialists in to defuse them. He saw a lot of people killed and maimed over those years, thus became one of the ex-servicemen against war movement but above all else maintained German friendships for most of life. People like him never wanted to see a war again. He reckoned that from the Mulberry Harbour landing he was on, plus a bit of time in Singapore, Malaya and then on to India after Japan was defeated through to when he left the army, he saw hundreds of totally pointless deaths. He used to say that the sea between Port Winston and Arromanches was adrift with bodies and dying men who could not be helped pleading for rescue. He was somehow haunted by much of that. I never got on well with him so never really heard as much as I wish I had. However, it should never have happened if countries had not been so anxious to be the biggest and best in the 19 century and create the animosities and warfare that marred the first half of 20 century European history.
After a few pints too many one day whilst I was visiting home and had to go for a quickie, he told how he was given a boy, probably not even old enough to have been conscripted who had had a couple of weeks instruction on how to hold a rifle, to help him carry away the explosives from recovered and defused artillery shells near the front line in France. On his second day on active service with him, the high explosive he was carrying was hit and there were not even identifiable body parts that could be recovered to bury. For the rest of his life my father had a cast in his eye, the pupil of his left eye almost jammed in the corner by his nose as a result of blast damage. I had never heard how that had happened before that day. The men he was actually telling that were silent and asked no more. As his contemporaries I think some had seen too much to want to.
His point was that such pointless deaths, of which there were far too many and any ex-serviceman willing to talk could often recall similar events, had to end. The Council of Europe, the ECHR, the EEA and ECSC that became the EEC that became the EU are all important parts of maintaining that peace. They have worked and Europe is now without major conflict between any European nations (OK, in eastern Europe there is and Yugoslavia breaking up was quite bloody) for over a millennium at least back to the height of the Roman empire when conquests and conflicts went on hold for a longish period (probably back to the ice age if we look beyond the periphery. If that is not worth keeping for that as well, then what is? Good point Mike.
I believe the 'old days' of extremism both left and right are sadly lacking. Politics in general had more 'zap' with inter-party bargaining the norm. I recall the days when figures like Benn, one of the most intelligent men of his time and Powell with probably even more of the grey matter contributed so richly to political opinion. Figures like Heffer et al and the 1922 Committee etc were seen as enemies of the party at times and to be avoided or appeased in order to keep relative peace. Such times were exciting and enemies of the state like Hatton and Red Robbo enhanced the political horizon. Luv 'em or hate 'em, such figures stirred the emotions and actually created some interest in the day to day politics either positively or otherwise, not to mention affect the lives of most people.
I'm not saying those political times were always 'good' but at least they were interesting, certainly more interesting with the personalities around at the time. Looking around today what do we have ? A chap who lead a new party with success but ended up losing, another who had his promises set in stone , a man with a funny name who lost his seat, a party which chose the wrong brother, a tidy looking Scottish bird who threatened to hold the balance of power and absolutely NO SIGN of of a peer of the realm dressed in dodgy garb representing us Loonies and embarassing the lib/lab/con establishment wherever he chose to perform, I mean sit....
There you are my dear, in all your splendour. Now can’t you download it ?
There are things at odds. What the UK is demanding in the EU is not the same as other countries. The demands put forward at the EU summit were to change the regulation and law making processes to give the countries (Cameron was speaking only on behalf of the UK and had clearly not consulted with any other country) back complete control over those things. That is an entirely superficial matter anyway since no more than 15% of new regulations affect the UK at all and then a very large part of that is already in place so does not need to be domestically amended. The 75% bandied about is actually how many new regulations affect all 28 member states which distributed is probably similar to what it means to the UK bar some of the members in former East Europe who are still undergoing reform.
Politicians are great manipulators, that is a great example. What a number of countries want is reform of how the EU is administered. The bureaucracy and wastage in duplication, triplication, etc is annoying them and they want that changed. Countries are paying out large amounts of money to see the same thing done several times over by various departments and over a longer period than necessary. They want an end to that. The majority also want an auditing process put in place, Nigel Farage who has personally failed to do so and his fellow kipper MEPs likewise are actually right that there is no obligatory audit for expenses. Cameron, if anybody actually read the whole stories or looked at the content of pre-prepared speeches on the EU website, said that that is not necessary. He also made it quite clear that the UK will not enact the banking regulations which, amongst other things, limits the payment of bonuses to their CEOs.
That is UK 2013/14 for you. Previous governments back to Thatcher have done less, but then close on nothing in general. Blair made a lot of speeches with loads of soundbites that seemed clever but were hollow words. As Shirley says, not only his nibs but other UK politicians have blocked and prevented a number of enquiries, nearly all of them to do with some kind of financial irregularity. As for an EU Iraq enquiry, that was nipped in the bud by a cross party group of UK MEPs who said the UK would not participate! So no party has any moral high ground to adopt and say 'it was them'.
With the UK's track record, with the obstructions and avoidance, for any politician of any hue to stand up and say 'WE are going to reform the EU (into what WE want it to be and do) is just arrogance but undermines the standing of the UK. The fact that certain industrial concerns have said they will leave the UK if it left the EU started with that behaviour during the Blair then Brown period, it is nothing new, it has just increased during the last five years as threats of referendums and leaving mounted. They are not hollow threats as some people claim, they are quire real. As economists and finance experts have said, if only six major manufacturing companies leave the UK the capital flight from the financial sector would inevitably follow damaging the City. Nearly 20 major companies (14 of them foreign owned although several are still considered British companies) have said they will go and then not all of them to EU countries. Tata who own Rover/Landrover/Jaguar have said they have the facilities to move the first two to India and the latter to Italy, which when the then Labour government was heard in the HoC had demands for legislation to prevent them doing so. However, neither government nor any company could afford to either take over those car makers not fight Tata's corporate lawyers.
When looked at in the cold light of day, the UK dare not leave the EU, therefore the referendum could be almost national suicide. It would most certainly precipitate the break up of the union as well. No government wants to be responsible for that and see their country slide into being a backwater. Personally, I would not go so far as to blame the coalition who were being reactive and only amplifying threats that have origins back to the mid-1990s that were exacerbated by ukip, the Tory right and whole string of so-called left wingers headed, in their time, by Tony Benn.
That remains to be seen. However, given the sudden increase in requests for house viewings from the UK in the last few days perhaps we are. What ever our political brand, we got out under our own steam. People may now be getting out because X. That definitely makes us smart.
Oh dear Jane, I must have misunderstood the v late night news then - or DC changed his mind, well that’s our winter fuel allowances up the Swanee then isn’t it. EDF have just informed me my monthly DD will go from 41 - 133 euros a month from next month! Ouch! And I’ve had 3 diesel heating oil deliveries in the 14 months I’ve been in the Sarthe.
You know me Peter, unique and original! ask James and Catherine why - I had to rejoin cos all pc’s kaput, so I treated myself to an iPad but then 2 members eh? Wow that’s good for a woman! I had to rejoin SFN as a new member. I did ask SFN to use my original picture on my new membership, I look much better in that than I do now! think I’ll be 6ft under before long, so would you think so too, if.you saw a pic of me now! It’s probably too complicated and time consuming for SFN. I wonder if any old discussions, last year only I think, would suffice, with a reply from me and my old pic still there?
Also I can’t work out how to send a specific photo on this iPad or how to attach to an email- I’m sure the computer buffs on here will understand the iPad Air2. after 30+ years using MS OS, to suddenly have to learn Apple iOS is a nightmare! I’ll have to stop taking the pills and drink more wine…
Ok send me the details! 
Graham, unfortunately, as said elsewhere here, the UK doesnt get much coverage of things political,or viewpoints from other European broadcasters reflecting the views of their own Economic or political Experts views on the UK stance, except when it’s for the UK position - Amongst other interests, I spend a lot of time watching or listening to France 24’ sat ch 205’ and they put out a lot more European news than you get on UK mainstream channels. Sadly people like Nigel farrage will be on the increase now - already 3 days after resigning as ukip leader, He’s back on board saying he’ll stand at the next by-election that comes up! God help us all if he wins and the UK voters, no,voters in England, vote to exit the EU, which they may well do - then yes us ‘immigrants’ now living in France, may well have cause for concern…Perhaps we’ll all be eating our hats, especially the straw ones that protect us from the sun, if the UK does leave the EU.
Let’s face it, us expats did not get much support or coverage from UK TV! time to start working on our MEP’s - or they’ll be unemployed also! I don’t include Farrage in that idea. One evening, I watched a documentary a few months ago, about him. As an MEP, he is on the EU fisheries committee, his attendance record was appalling but he has been paid loads of money with being a UK MEP, through salary and expenses claimed!
Well lo and behold, despite. Ali s of illness and needing a holiday where was he yesterday- yes - you’ve guessed it, back in Brussels!
Sorry Graham, not getting at you personally, just your comment gave me the opportunity to make my points also, given the current, post election discussion we are now having.
Chris, labour didn’t do much about defending UK rights and responsibilities or improving the EU as a whole did they? Like Farage, MEP’s just there to collect their fat Salaries, and A previous Labour PM, is one of the worst for making money out of the EU, when he was no longer PM. He actually stopped an enquiry going on in the EU about perks and expenses being paid there - well he was a beneficiary of those same things - another serious documentary on BBC that I don’t suppose too many people watched, but I did at some silly time like 3am, sometime since Nov 2013, because it was a repeat of an earlier broadcast.
it’s a great shame it’s not mandatory for all PPC’s, existing MP’s & MEP’s to have a Masters degree in Honesty and Integrity and then to perform in accordance with that qualification! If they did, then perhaps the British electorate could “trust” in and believe the manifestos of the various political parties, which hopefully would be based on the genuine good and needs of the electorate.
I would like to say you conservative ex pats ( notice I did not use a capital letter for the C word) and you leftie pinkos( ditto) are a bunch of... well ... people who have decided to live in France. Now - does that not make us a bunch of, well - smart people?
Bet his toenails were ok though ?
Sounds like my ex Catherine