love it Catharine - laughing as much as in my photo!
PS - still looking for a way of living without working but seem to be a long way off finding it!
Gosh - do you need to *pulls disdainful face* "work" Andrew.....
You pleb :)
Try using the tunnel James, you have to stay in your car!
oh good God here we go again - No one here is trying to impose a class system, the question was does a class system exist in France? the answer from most of us who are thoroughly integrated into French society, at whatever level, is yes it does. simple question, simple answer. Whether you think that it's a good thing or not is a completely different question - to which I'd answer NO, I can't stand it either but that wasn't the original question. And as for degrees and all that Richard, I've also done years of manual work as a Blacksmith so drop that one please and for the record I often earn less using my degree qualifications than I did using my manual skills. I've never used the word superior in any replies to this thread and wouldn't either - we're completely off topic... human beings are social animals who live together in groups and by their very nature, rightly or wrongly, judge others around them whether they're french or english.
Got to go otherwise I won't earn a centimes today!
There is NO such thing as a defined class structure, it's all in your heads -----------
Does having a degree make you better person than someone like me, a person who went through the secondary school system learned to read and write --just --- who still doesn't know the difference between a verb and an adverb, in English OR in french ???? --NOOOOOOO it doesn't it just means you are better educated than me --- NOT SUPERIOR.
Because you earn a higher wage than me, because of your degree etc and thus can afford to live in a more expenive house etc, does that make you a superior class to me ????? NOOOOOOOOOOO it just means you are able to afford the way you live.
So there it is, it's those that think by right of birth, or,those that by the fact they have attained a higher level of education --fiscal earnings etc etc THINK they should be in a more superior class than the underlings they have dismissed as "lesser beings"
No one person on this earth is a better person than me, nor is anyone a lesser person, we are all human beings, it is those with aspirations of granduer that have formulated what they consider to be a status --or a standard -- of situation which forms the "class structure".
Thank you Jane ;-)
That when a client is doing the rounds of several translators or when the CCI have asked me to teach a group of "cadres" or I'm lecturing at Uni... that I come across as serious, reliable and "a pair of safe hands" - I've seen plenty who can't offer this or prefer to be "they'll just have to accept me as i am" fall by the wayside in that they're never asked to come backnever get repeat work and soon find themselves "fauché et dans la merde" !
Jeanette, we're way off track and definitely talking at cross purposes! I can assure you that I'm as anti-raciste, anti-sexist, anti what ever you like as you. The question asked by James was does france have a class system? the answer is most definitely yes. Now moving on to our discussion... yes if you like at times it's "selling your sole" I admit openly but, and here I'm talking far more about how others see you and the messages you give out rather than any class issues, there are some jobs in life that you simply can't do / won't get any business if you don't put out the right messages. I admire your view point, I've been there and enjoyed it when I was in a more artistic field - people buy your work and not your personal image - but I've also tried other fields where background and image and playing by the rules - I was an officer in the Royal Navy - is essential.
No-one bulies me into doing the right thing - I'd still be living in the UK and still be in the navy if that were the case. Instead I gave up everything I had, went back to uni, went to uni here in France, now doing my own thing, have left numerous jobs that didn't suit me but only when I could financilly do so - I have no fixed income at all as a freelancer and have two kids to feed + OH's job is looking more and more uncertain which is why I tend to put the stress on the financial side of this argument - I'd love to be a babacool and not work but I care about my kids too much to do that ;-)
Andrew, you have a family to consider. You work in academic circles and from what I remember from University politics in UK, it is probably not much different over here!
You are not just working "for cash", you are using your skills to help people learn and provide translation where it is needed!
Almost all new developments are required to have a mix of housing nowadays, or to make some other contribution socially.
Sorry Julie - my reply was to Jeanette's nice idea that I don't have to worry about what others think of me/what messages I give out to future clients...
Fortunately I'm in the old industrial/mining part of the aveyron that doesn't appeal to many but I work in Figeac and in the summer it turns into Figeac-on-avon in deepest "Lotshire" ... funny, we never seem to go there in July and August ;-)
So easy to say once you're retired and I can assure you I'm pretty non-conformists but would lose a lot of business and wouldn't have got the various jobs that I did if I hadn't played by the rules both here and previously in the UK. Would be so easy if I were an artist (and was as an artistic blacksmith!) but you have to play a different ball game lecturing at uni, teaching in companies or meeting clients for important translation projects - horses for courses. and yes there are moments when it's brilliantly "non class" here too - last night at our cycling club agm dinner where business boses and factory workers all tutoient each other, wives mingle without the Uk style "and what does your husband do..." and it doesn't matter what car you turn up in we're all mates and cycle up and down the mountains together (but we all know who's got a good job, who earns a lot, who's just spent 5000 euros on the latest bike and who can't afford to change their old steel frame 'mulet') - it's part of society unless of course you can live in a bubble or drop our completely (and have the financial means to do so ;-)
BTW I'm talking about French society and my experiences of it, of working here and having far more contact with my french inlaws and family and friends than my own in the UK (but I am English and this is why i'm here on sfn - it's the only real contact, all be it electronic, I have with others in France). I'm pretty clueless about the expat bubble people who keep their Uk class system etc - I agree with everyone here - I very rarely come across them and hide if I do!
Jeanette (and others), this thread keeps talking at cross purposes... I'd love to forget about it but when you work here in France and deal exclusively with the French (this site being my only anglophone/expat contact) are constantly being judged by colleagues and clients alike, not to mention friends, you can't get away from it, it's just as rife as in the UK. I chose to ignore as much as I can but I have to earn a living too!
@Catharine - next time ask to try your friend's pool and when you do tell her you've just added an additional "yellow water" jet to it!
@Janet - as has already been said here - steer well clear of the expats you mention - they bring a whole new class aspect to this debate that I have seen from a distance but can't comment on as I haven't experienced it (all friends and family here in France are French).
Going back to the original question - is there a french class system? Yes there most certainly is! AND you can then add the Brit/anglophone expat class system, described by others here, to it... makes the mind boggle!
No! Anyway, I would never dare to try and insert your hair into the filter. You are far too scary!
"It's alive & well everywhere!"
Yup - and as for that Fiona McG and her posh pool......!!!
I met someone recently who told me (and I swear this true)
" Well, my swimming pool has massage jets"
We were in a pool at the time and I was tempted to try and stuff her hair into the filtration system, but managed to control myself.
Class system is alive and well in France, slightly different to the UK but just as deep rooted ;-)
Oh so well said Janet, one of the first things i am asked when i meet other Brits is how long have you been in France and always they have been longer and brag about it as though length of time here is a position of rank or badge of honour
when one sees "one" used repeatedly, one is aware that one is in the presence of the middle classes. Culture, language and the need to identify with those who reafirm ones petty predjudice are what defines ones class.