Living in a country without speaking the language

Haha, you’re clearly trolling :rofl: Brits not attempting to learn another language isn’t due to laziness but the French doing the same thing is them being lazy.

If, however, you’re being serious then I’m not sure tourism in France is being held back by the rest of the world :grin:

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Until recently I would dread receiving a call from a French person as I know that I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea what they were talking about. Anyway my oh is very hard of hearing. Her hearing aids sometimes work but are pretty unreliable. Speaking to family on the phone had become very frustrating. So I tried to find an app that converts speech from a phone call to text real time. Skype does this very well and has made a huge difference. Although the text is not a perfect transcription it is good enough and leads to a few amusing misunderstandings. So that gave me the idea of looking for an app that would transcribe voice to text without the caller being aware of any difference. I found the "Roger voice "app. So I’ve arranged with orange for all my calls on my French Sims to be transferred to Roger voice and Roger voice forwards the call back to me with the transcripted text. So now I can read what the French person is saying and this has made a massive difference as my French is good enough to get the gist of what’s being said.

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Tourism is not residency. Even so, just a few words in the host country language couldn’t hurt impressions of the British tourist

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I think everyone who travels to another country should attempt to learn at least a few basics before going, to show respect to the residents of that country. I’ve always found that at least being able to say ‘hello, goodbye, thank you etc’ is appreciated. I have seen some people abroad who still demonstrate that outdated, strange ‘colonial’ attitude of considering themselves as superior to the residents of the country they are visiting, so not having to make any effort to learn at least a few polite words. Obviously when actually living in another country you have to make time to get to know the language, so you can integrate more easily. If you haven’t studied the language as a youngster, there are lots of books/on-line aids if you haven’t any time for regular group language courses. Listening to the radio (which trains the ear even if you can’t understand anything at first) or watching tv (with French subtitles) helps. Everyone can learn the basics (or more) of a language if they put in the effort and time. It just takes some people longer than others.

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But it is. It is an implication that the person is uneducated. No one wants that title.

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I was at our local jumelage meeting the other night and there was a discussion of this. Obviously, they are a self-selecting group so probably atypical - but the dominant view was definitely that poor English was holding France back in international trade, and indeed putting many French people off traveling outside the Francosphere.
There was much criticism of the way foreign languages are taught in French schools too - broadly, too much formal grammar, too much writing, not enough talking - although I suspect they’re out of date (@vero ?) as they’re all (I guess) over 40.

I’m the only English member of the group - embarrassingly, I’ve never been to the twin town - Tavistock.

Learning is about being a human blotting paper and how the cells are arranged in the brain. No amount of teaching and learning is a substitute for talent.

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? What is so bad about not knowing something? I don’t think it implies anything, and it doesn’t make you bad or stupid or whatever. Anyone can get something wrong and would surely prefer to be put right?
I certainly would and am very lucky to have eg a Lebanese colleague who helped me sort out a bit of Arabic yesterday.

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And talent without hard work is pretty much useless, thinking you can wing it on talent leads to great disappointment and bitterness from what I have seen. You need both, ideally.

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The topic is, living in a country without speaking the language. You seem to be talking about visiting countries on holiday which is a different topic. Tourists are part of a country’s tourist economy, countries are geared up to offer tourists what they want and make as much money as possible out of them while they are there. It does not matter to the country whether or not a tourist speaks the language, tourists do not have the same obligations as residents and they do not need to understand public service announcements and deal with administrative issues like building regulations, taxation etc. Tourists are not going to get themselves into a mess through not understanding what they have to do, and need help to get out of it.

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Ah but we are not in an ideal world Vero are we?
I personally have worked extreemly hard but not in the same way as others…perhaps.
Like some others on here I do not mince my words.

Well they are supposed to talk a lot now so theoretically things have changed but I’m not that convinced - at the same time the problem is really you have to teach a certain amount of theory so learners can extrapolate and aren’t stuck with only what you have taught them. We aren’t supposed to do much formal grammar and by French standards we no longer do.

The big problem is people thinking that not knowing something is inherently bad when actually what is bad (imho) is not trying to learn. I think the atmosphere in class between pupils isn’t always supportive.

It is very like the way you are taught music here, lots of solfège before you can lay hands on an instrument, but it is a cultural attitude, French people and institutions love theory to the point where empiricism is seen as a bit primitive (very wrong I think).

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I don’t know why you are taking this so personally, Barbara, needing both talent and hard work to succeed doesn’t seem like an extraordinary thing to say, it is a generalisation which holds for most cases, and certainly isn’t implying anything about anyone. Nobody is judging you.

Oh I have just thought : are you saying there are many talentless lazy people in the world? Well that’s not very kind but it is probably true. I’d class myself among them, so what.

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When my kids were going through school here I felt at first that what they did in the classroom was too theoretical but as time went on I started to feel it does give more scope if the parents cooperate. Parents can encourage kids can do the hands on aspect out of the classroom. whereas most parents cannot teach them foreign grammar and solfa and art and craft techniques but parents can encourage their kids to pick up a musical intrument or pratise a foreign language or do art and craft. But this does not work if the kids do not do any of this out of school.

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True. Whatever you learn you have to practise, nobody gets anywhere doing any activity physical, mental or both, on 2 hours a week and no practice.

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Having taught MFL in both countries (albeit briefly in the UK) I would suggest that although both systems have their faults but that the levels are higher in France. Add to that the fact that kids can’t “drop” foreign languages here (France) at 13, the difference becomes far greater the older the age group of young people you’re looking at (pretty much all French 16, 17 or 18 years olds in education are continueing to learn a foreign language whilst the numbers in the UK at AS level are 8 % and at A2 they fall to less than 5% … cherchez l’erreur ! :man_facepalming:

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“The more I practice the luckier I get.” Gary Player

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Oh my, good heavens, that’s not true. You manifest talent every time you come on here. :grin:

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Anyone with an interest in mythology and a desire to listen to beautiful clear French would probably love this, it is fantastic and even if you know the stories it isn’t at all dull

Edited to add that Annie Ernaux who has just won the Nobel prize for literature is a limpid read and fascinating autobiography-based novelist especially if you are interested in the lived experience of ordinary people in France in the last getting on for a century.

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When our gym class was unexpectedly cancelled, my friend said it was « chouette ». Not a small owl, but great news !

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