Hi - I’m trying to buy a car, but it transpires that the car is some kind of lease hire / hire purchase (LOA). The guy selling it wasn’t even sure how to sell it. After a couple of weeks he has sent a document over which i could post up on here with important info blurred out (if i’m able to affix a jpeg?). Basically it appears that i must pay the creditor off, sign some documents then wait about two weeks before I can take ownership. This doesn’t sound good to me. Has anyone had any dealings with LOA? Thank you. Jon
I’d walk away. This is something that garages deal with all the time. It should not be an issue for the seller.
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Having recently been offered the chance to go through these motions with my previous LLD (not LOA), the hire company offered for me to buy the vehicle anyway, and/or sell it on to someone else, so it definitely is a possibility. As I wasn’t interested in going down that route, I simply handed it back via their dedicated system of check and recover, for which they use a separate specialised contractor, and for which I only had to drop off the vehicle at the garage from whence it was originally delivered. I was intrigued though to learn that even with business LLD vehicles, it remains a possibility to acquire the vehicle in question at the end of the lease period.
surely that’s been the case in many situations… although from years ago to my certain knowledge… (at the end of the Lease)
Hire Purchase is not the same as a Lease…
if the Seller still owes money to the HP folk… he should clear it before Selling… that’s one of the documents a Seller should be able to provide (and/or the Purchaser can obtain)… confirmation that there is NO outstanding Finance on the vehicle !
Personally, I’d walk away…
I’ve just told the seller that he needs to clear the debt first. It’s not that i don’t trust him, but sending over €22k to a finance company and wait 2 weeks for things to clear sounds like too much stress for me. Having tasted Frernch bureaucracy there is no way I’m willing to trust this process will work out in a good time frame. If i pay up straight away i have zero control. When I bought my house here in 2017 - on the day of the sale - my bank manager (who was facilitating the mortgage and payment) went on holiday despite him knowing full well that was signing day. I was there in the notaire’s office with my van outside full of my stuff. Fortunately the vendor gave me the keys anyway and the purchase went through a month later. Could have been a nightmare!
My friend’s daughter bought a second hand car many years ago without knowing or having it declared to her that it had been purchased new on HP. It was only when she changed the carte grise at the prefecture to her name and address that she started to receive demands for payments of the HP loan. The whole thing went to the gendarmes who went after the original seller and he had to pay the debt off but my friend still kept her car as she had paid in full to the seller.
frankly, I’d not want to spend that on a vehicle without the guarantees which when purchasing through a Garage…
sounds more and more like… walk on by… walk on by… and keep going.
The car has 3 years extended manuacturer’s warranty on the car/van and on the 4x4 system. For me this eliminates worry about the state of the vehicle. I also trust the vendor, i find some garages a lot less trustworthy. But it’s the rediculous process i don’t trust. Like everything bureaucratic in France, there are layers between layers of paperwork and pen pushers that turn the whole process into a sisyphean struggle!. I’ll give the chap the chance to clear the debt himself first
surely that couldn’t happen these days since the vendor needs to produce a document showing no debt on the vehicle
I did say it was some years ago now when you had to do paperwork via the prefecture for everything then. It was a right old mess and as I said, the gendarmes got involved and visited the vendor to sort it out.
I’m doing a little research in preparation for a meeting on Monday about funding a Renault 5 we’ve ordered. I think there are basically three options when one purchases a car here.
1 - Buy outright, providing the funds, by whatever means, yourself - which is what I have done for 50+ years. Simplest and usually cheapest. But I’ve already a very expensive EV depreciation risk “on our books”. Though residuals seem to be holding for the model/marque.
2 – A straight lease (LLD), where I pay a big first payment and then 36 monthly payments after which I just give the car back. Clean cut, slightly more expensive, but I’m palming the EV residual value risk and vehicle off on the finance company.
3 – A lease with purchase option (LOA), where I pay the same big first payment and about 10% higher monthly payments for 36 months but then have the option to purchase the car for an amount agreed up front. For the R5, Even without the added EV uncertainty this doesn’t seem to make sense. The residual value looks overpriced and not worth paying a monthly premium for the option. I suspect I could also approach the finance company under option 2 at the end of the contract if I wanted.
I need to put together a little spreadsheet to see which is the best option.
It sounds to me that your vendor has taken option 3, but with an attractive residual value.
How old is the car, is he exercising his option to buy or terminating early (with a penalty I guess), and in either case without the requisite cash to do so? So, in effect you are lending him the money to buy, with a “promise” to sell you the car at an agreed price as collateral. I’d want that well documented 
If so, then the car has never actually been “his”, it’s the finance company’s (though his name may also appear on the CG). Rather than you having to fund him to buy the car so that he flip it on to you, can you just buy it from the finance company direct? Or is the vendor trying to turn a profit as it flits through his hands? You could just pay him that as a commission on sale completion. It’s worth talking to the finance company.
One way or the other, I would say there is a safe way to do it, it’s just a matter of finding it. In the meantime hang on to your cash.
Thanks for your indepth reply John. Indeed he got the car in option 3 (LOA), it’s a 2022 car/van. He bought it through his company (him being the boss) as a vehicle to use for the company business. The company’s name is on the Carte Gris i think. I think he probably did things this way so he could offset all the costs against his business - Electricians. The process of sale he is offering is what his wife (and company secretary) terms “the fastest way” : i buy direct from the lease hire company. I pay off the €22k dept to them and another €4-5k cheque to the ‘vendors’. I’m sure this is just one way that this could be done and i’m sure it’s the fastest… But why on earth should i have to stump up €22k and wait two weeks? I think if i was buying a new car i’d make the transfer on the day of sale, or a bank cheque in person on the day. It seems to me that i’d be taking all the risks, whereas the vendor gets an easy ride and the finance company make sure they get their money before anything happens. I’m wanting to talk to my bank and see if there’s a way that they withold the actual payment till `i get the car and signed documents.
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just a thought… it isn’t a diesel is it ???
yes, and it’s AdBlue
which Crit’Air sticker?
i really don’t know - but it’s a 2022 Citroen Diesel 1.5l adblue. I imagine it would be be a pretty good crit ranking. not that i even need a crit sticker. I live right in the Pyrenees. There’s a little section of motorway near Toulouse that’s in their clean air zone (a few kms), which i simply drive through with my old diesel sans sticker. I really should sort that out. I don’t think there are cameras there. Basically the only time I’d need this crit rubbish is when I go to Toulouse Blagnac airport. I live right out in the sticks
…and where is it positioned? Asking for a friend. 
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