Radio 4 had a bit of a Brexit focus at lunchtime today and most of it made for interesting listening. I was confused however by a coach trip firm owner/driver who had phoned in to explain that he was concerned about his planned trip to the 2020 Passion Play in Oberammergau. (Passionsspiele) He made some good points about there being no clear information yet available about visas, driving licences etc and the problems that those things were causing. He was then asked why he was a Leave voter. His reply made no sense to me. His reason for leaving was that when his coaches enter Germany he has to stop at the border to show he has the relevant licences and paperwork required. Why he thinks that such scrutiny will become less onerous after Brexit is strange and to use that as your main reason for voting leave bizarre.
Perhaps itâs just me whoâs confused.
What a bizarre reason.
Taking a cynical view itâs possible that his real reason was to do with immigration/controlling borders etc but, of course, that opens him up to accusations of racism (perhaps).
Well his real reason for voting leave certainly wasnât the one he gave. I suppose itâs a bit awkward when youâre being interviewed by the BBC about the inconveniences of Brexit and the interviewer points out that youâre a leave voter. Iâm sure that blaming the Germans always goes down well with his mates.
That reason does not hold water - the reason he is stopped in his coach at the German border is because he has to pay a toll to use the German roads. Unlike France where the tolls are paid at the booths on the motorway, Germany collects the toll at the border based on the likely mileage for your journey. The odo is noted on entry and again on exit - any difference to that estimated upon entry has to be paid upon exit.
Either way, it is a ridiculous reason!
Not to say an exotic sprasm.
The German system has been hi-tech for years with automatic number plate readers on the Autobahn for lorries and coaches. No need to stop to give mileages.
Thanks David - it has been many years since i drove a coach through Germany. Saying that, however, when we visit Austria in our motorhome we still have to stop near/ before the border to obtain a âGO boxâ as we are over 3.5T. High tech - yes, but we have to stop.
No, he has just shown the totally confused âthinkingâ of many Leave Voters .
I have heard a man in a pub in London saying that he voted Leave because âWe won the Warâ.
Also recently, from Sunderland, that EU immigrants were given precedence in social housing and benefits, when the reality is that they are net contributors to the UK economy.
The reality is that people have not thought at all and prejudice has won out over reality fuelled by the Leave Campaign saying that anything which would change was âProject Fearâ.
I think the most powerful explanation for many leave votes was in a conversation I heard reported between a father and daughter: she said she wasnât sure which way to vote; he replied âWell, things are bad, vote for changeâ.
We are victims of a poorly judged referendum: remain voters knew perfectly well what they were voting for - it was the status quo, they experienced it every day - but leave voters only know what they were voting against. The fact that there were many different and incompatible ideas about the reality of brexit is proven by the continuing disagreements - as demonstrated by the UK government - about exactly what it should be like.
In respect of this there is a case for a new referendum once the withdrawal deal (if any) is known - people will at least have more of an idea of what exactly theyâre voting for.
However, I understand the tactical concerns over advocating a new referendum. Given Starmerâs 6 tests, Labour is bound to vote against Mayâs deal, so only a dozen Tory rebels will defeat it, precipitating such a political crisis that I think a general election would be bound to follow - but in the face of a new referendum threat, or Labour coming out fully against brexit - the ERG Tories at least would not rebel, because they know it would lose them brexit altogether.
No doubt Westminster is awash with subtle political calculationsâŚ
Having read countless arguments on forums by Brexit types, I am of the opinion that there was no logic applied to a Leave decision. Some of the dogma in support of Brexit reads like a script written by someone with absolutely no understanding of anything outside their own little world. If anyone tries to make them aware of statements made by business people, NHS executives, or financial people, or even show them negative results that are happening NOW before Brexit has taken placeâŚthe shutters come down and they just trot out the same spiel.
If Brexit happens as it looks like happening my only consolation is that the Brexiteers and the spineless politicians who refused to turn it around will have to suffer the consequences. Sorry about the UK, but they have only themselves to blame.
This is quite interesting if you read between the lines Link
This also Link - those damned migrants no longer sponging of the state they are now stealing all the well paid jobs off hard working people by working hard! 
You couldnât make it up! (unless your name is Boris or Nigel - then it seems you can make up whatever tosh you want)
I also read at the weekend that Jean Claude Junker is going to appeal to UK public to reject Brexit by making a series of promises that address partially the concerns that people had and voted for Brexit.
The aim is to increase the Remain position further which would appear to be ahead by a small margin currently(bigger than original opposite margin!) .
This could get interesting.
Where did you read that Mat? and why didnât he say that a few years ago when PM Cameron was asking for help with the UKâs concerns, he would not have to have called the referrendom if he had have done.
Only way to reverse Brexit is for Article 50 to be withdrawn, whoâs brave enough to do that, Labour under Corbyn?
I full agree there was the opportunity years ago.
I canât remember exactly where it was, but it was a link to an article in one of the national papers and also discussed discussions with Tony Blair, John Major and Nick Clegg.
I saw something⌠but canât see anything now⌠drat and double drat⌠
Thats cogent.Well done!
As an codger Lawyer type I like facts.They deserve to win the day!
As an aside I cannot see a hard brexitâŚtoo much chaos.
Compromise âŚprobably but if some migration on E.U workers for UK for a few years at least ,a very overcrowded island ,that should swing people to accepting we are better off in E.U.
When I voted yes in 1975 it was for trade and the economy and I think it turned out well on balanceâŚ
Out of the clubâŚI think we will be a minor player.
No empire to fall back on!
We must look to work together in Europe Re Security/ trade but our wonderful common law should never have been surbservient to ECJâŚa completely different law going back to Napoleon!
Sad to sayâŚheâs a Brit who voted to exitâŚwith no understanding at all.