Maybe buying a townhouse ….hello and questions…

Property & Home
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Hi everyone, new here.

We’re living in the UK and looking to buy a place in France as a place to visit and rent out once restored, before starting to spend more time there. It’s in Vitry le-Francois to be precise…a town (c.12,000) south of Reims, north of Troyes in the Grand-Est region.

Having never purchased abroad before, and hearing of the bureaucracy and complexity in buying, I managed to find this site which I’m slowly reading through.

The place we’re going to see (in a couple of weeks) is a 1920’s townhouse. On the outside it looks lovely, with incredible curb appeal. Interior photos are great, and there’s a video tour which is really helpful. I’ve put the links below for anyone interested.

However, looking through the diagnostic report using the Google translator as my assistant, it would appear there is a significant amount of renovation needed, such as improvements to heating, ventilation/insulation and electrical. Estimates on the report suggest 50-70k Euros to improve these ‘basic’ items. There are also lead paint flake and asbestos roof sheets to consider.

My initial questions are around….should I just look for a different place? I do home DIY, but not a tradesperson at all. The renovation would require a project manager to take care of things, and manage the trades people to get the infrastructure up to scratch.

It’s more costly, but I can’t be onsite to supervise and don’t speak French and wouldn’t know where to source the right trades needed. Basically, pretty green.

Other questions:

Does anyone know the area…what’s it like?

Can you advise on how to find an English speaking project manager local to the town.

I’ve lots of other questions obviously, but researching as much as possible so I can ask better questions.

What inspections and experts would you employ to assess the property before committing?

Thanks and hello,

Steven

Link to the property: https://www.green-acres.fr/en/properties/property/vitry-le-francois/Aao9vyg37q4tz4v9.htm

Link to the video tour: https://youtu.be/_bpsfyUQl8E?feature=shared

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Hola and welcome !

The place does indeed look wonderful and I can see why you are interested in buying.

The buying process is not that difficult, its just different to conveyancing in UK. Just find an English speaking Notary in the hood and take it from there. Plenty of them in France too.

The costs for upgrading the house?…I think you might want to look at your total spend budget including fees, (for the notary, and site agent and other advisors you see fit) and then work backwards to the asking price and then make an offer.

The costs for the upgrades you mention might be a bit on the low side and also take a good look at the condition of the joinery (windows and doors)..each one you could budget at 1k for a small window and say 2 -3 k for a door (go see the Marie to see what you can and can’t do as well).

Lead paint…par for the course as as asbestos sheets on roofs..nothing to worry about so long as the métiers are all registered to do the work.

So…in short, do the sums and be realistic with money and your time and do fall in love with the area you choose!

Good luck

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Welcome to SF @SteveN

The house looks great. Without seeing the diagnostic reports it’s difficult to advise, but they are generally advisory so you know what you are getting. My main worry would be the electrics and the disruption (damage) caused by bringing everything up to current normes.
You’ll know a lot more when you actually get to see the place and can ask more questions. There’s loads of info about buying property on here already - just use the search facility.

Sorry, no idea about the area or finding an English speaking maître d’oeuvre .

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We found our maitre d’oeuvre through the estate agent who sold us the house. You could also google English speaking ones in V-le-F.

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Ask for actual bills for utilities when someone was living there, not the DPE estimates which are fantasies. Also the real Taxe Foncière and if this is to be a second home you will need to contact the tax service to know what the taxe d’habitation will be. Think about what you would consider an acceptable budget for running costs is as will be more than UK.

Looks lovely, and in good condition as can’t see damp. What is roof like from inside, any signs of damp ? Seems to be serious lack of sockets, and the bedrooms seem to be lacking lighting. So even if the electrics are up to scratch you may want significant improvement.

I would also ask for a contrôle d’eau - something we failed to do on recent purchase and badly bitten as turned out that 1 shower wasn’t connected and could never be connected. The people who bought our house did ask!

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Hi Steve and welcome to SF.

Well, if that house is not a listed building then it jolly well should be. The brickwork on the front, and the multiple beautiful fireplaces inside, plus the staircase, make it a possible candidate for all sorts of special rules and regs.
May I suggest that you check with the local Mairie as to the status of the property. Also, is it within 500 meters of any historic monument / building, as if so, then that brings a whole new layer of complexity to renovations from the Architects of the Buildings of France (ABF).

Good luck, I hope that it works for you.

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It’s nice, but not unusual or rare. Lots of inter-war housing like that. But worth checking as if by any chance it is I would steer clear

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Hi Steve and welcome,

I know bits and bobs about Vitry as ex-wife had place in the neighbouring Lorraine and we would drive through Vitry on occasion. It has historically had a large military presence, and there is an airbase nearby at St. Dizier with Rafale fighter jets (4th Fighter Squadron) in active service. If flyby noise is going to be an issue for you, you might want to rethink:

De Saint-Dizier à Vitry-le-François, ils vivent au rythme des vols de Rafale - Journal L’Union https://share.google/ct47EXSSOJcsMGOZw

You could probably ask at the Mairie about any flight noise, but they might not give you a completely honest answer. As I understand it, it is not high up on the list of must visit places for tourists, and I doubt that there is a huge anglophone presence there, so you might find yourself a little isolated (unless that’s what you want, of course). The area to the south, around the Lac du Der-Chantecoq is beautiful though, and in the summer quite busy with Dutch tourists and cyclists. Of course, the main commercial draw is probably Troyes, and further to the north you’ve got Reims. I don’t remember now whether the TGV Est goes through Vitry or whether there is a specific dedicated station further to the north. The last time I took the train from Bar le Duc to Paris, many years ago , we spent an age sat in Vitry waiting for something, and it took 4.5 hours, but that was a regional train rather than the TGV.

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Well the house looks lovely.

This is an area that we approximately drive through between Calais from the tunnel and our house in the Morvan. As I recall it’s quite flat with a lot of agrarian activity around - if that works for you as countryside then it should be good.

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Don’t commit to anything until you have had a good look. The main problems would be electrics, plumbing, insulation, foundations, flood risks, infestations and dry/wet rot. The sellers have to have a diagnostic report done which is now even more thorough than it was when I sold my previous home in 2021 and that was over 40 pages and cost nearly a thousand euros to obtain but obligatory. You need to check the neighbourhood too as to any proposed changes for traffic, parking and new building works etc, a Notaire does not always have to disclose these points. If you have a builder friend, even from the UK, maybe go with you but things have to be done to French norms and not UK style. Renting is another matter, there are strict laws here protecting tenants who do not pay and squatters in some cases plus you need to have someone take care of problems if you do not live locally. The house looks nice but people can be very dishonest when they want to sell and hide things so Caveat Emptor. Estimates for work should be considered as estimates and you need to consider at least half of that cost again for unforeseen problems and the rising cost of materials and labour. Heating will be a consideration too

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Looking at the property, it has a DPE rating of F, which is quaintly defined as a ‘thermal sieve’ (ask @captainendeavour about that). Sellers of such low rated properties now have an obligation to provide an energy audit with details of how much it may cost to upgrade the efficiency of the house. I assume this is what has been provided to you. The report I think should also detail what is possible as far as improving the DPE and you should think carefully about that as if it’s only possible to update to say a D rating then that’s not particularly good. I would also take any costings with a pinch of salt and get someone independent in to take a look before you commit. The other issue you may have in France is just what you can do to the property. There can be restrictions in place, some local, that could restrict your choices, especially to the exterior of the property or windows. You may be able to get more details from the Maire of the town. It does look like a beautiful property, but beauty is only skin deep and can hide a multitude of issues. I would think carefully, get a local tradesperson in (ask at the Maire perhaps) to give it a good look over and try to firm up exactly how much you may be committing to. I’ll bet it’s more than what the report says. Good luck, and do let us know how you get on.

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Also, what @Shiba said :+1:

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Thanks everyone for some incredible advice and suggestions.

The report is 141 pages long and goes into incredible detail. I can’t attach it here as the file size is 10Mb and it’s 19Mb….is that in itself telling me something? From the advice being given and the content of the report, I’m 99% certain this particular property is a non-starter.
Part of the reason for going to see it is to get a feel for just how much of a renovation I think we can take on, what the town is like….do we need to be in Chalons en Champagne instead etc.
And also whether I should consign owning a house in France to my dreams as reality is just too complex for all the reasons you’ve very kindly taken the time to write. For example, it would be far cheaper to rent a place for a month at a time, without any of these concerns.
I’ll keep you informed on what happens next.

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No, not really. I’ve just bought a house that the previous owner had mostly fully renovated so there’s very little left for us to do. The diagnostic report was equally large.

Only you can answer that, but I think you’re going about this in the right way and thinking with both your head and your heart. Definitely go visit it.

I’ve seen some places online that look lovely but, in person, would make anyone run a mile. Equally, there are places advertised online that look awful but that’s due to the estate agents’ inability to take good photos.

Edit: I forgot to ask, do you have visions of moving to France permanently to live at some point, or is this just going to be a holiday home for occasional use?

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I find that these ratings cover a multitude of sins. The Plywood Shack is a genuine ‘passoir thermique’ but I’ve just seen the details of a house that is ‘F’ because of the type of heating system - it looks like anything using ‘fioul’ is an ‘F’, more or less regardless of other considerations.

The agent’s blurb mentioned that incentives existed to replace low rated systems such as ‘fioul’,. The Gouv is using a carrot such a Renov-France and a stick - a low rating - to get these houses up the ratings.

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@SteveN
Hi, welcome to the forum.
You wrote that if you buy the house, you’ll be looking to rent it out. Just a heads up here, you can not legally rent a house in France with a DPE rating of G since 2025 & F rating from 2028.

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My thought was a beautiful woman who will seduce you and take your money. It’s a lovely building I can see why you are attracted to it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

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Thanks Wozza, I’d been reading about this point too….and so VERY interested in the spend needed to raise the DPE rating.

Getting more and more sure this is one to walk away from, no matter how pretty the ‘woman’ looks. @plod - good analogy.

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It will make a lovely “forever home” for someone but yeah it’s perhaps not ideal for letting.

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But not for non-residents.

Ours was a C, but fioul only for heating and everything else well insulated etc etc

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