We lived and worked in France for 13 really happy years [ we are both British, but I have Irish Nationality too.
We returned to the UK 5 years ago, which was always going to be a short term thing, as our hearts are still in France!! We planned to semi retire there by 2019.
Brexit has thrown a spanner in the works!!
We now need to make a decision about a date to return, and because of work and other commitments we would prefer to return in 2020.
By then we would not be able to take advantage of the UK system of a S1 type arrangement, to cover Health Care in France.
Although I could live there with my husband as an Irish citizen, I have never contributed to the Tax system of Ireland so there is no way I could expect my Health Care to be covered by the Irish Health Care system.
Has anyone any ideas about how to have French Health cover in these circumstances?
I did know some Australians a few years back who paid a fee and had French Health Cover-do you know if this could work?
Puma-That replaced CPAM is open to one living in France in a legal stable manner. Have an American friend who got her carte vital about 2 years ago with no problems. She had to have her carte de sejour-lots of hops to jump through but uou wonâ need thst if you have an Irish passport. Yes you have to pay your cotisations if you have no S1-but unless you have a very high income it must be cheaper than private health insurance.
S1 after brexit? Been no mention of the S1 only mention of continuing with the EHC type cover, thatâs not been agreed either. No one has any idea of what will happen after the UK leaves. At the moment its just all pure speculation.
Hi Jacqueline,
I believe that the contributions payable under PUMa are 8% of your joint annual income in excess of âŹ9655. (No doubt someone will correct me if thereâs been a recent change.)
So if the joint annual income is âŹ25,000 then the contributions work out to âŹ102.30 per month which covers both members of the couple. The bills are usually sent out every 3 or 4 months.
Dear Trevor,
Thank you so much for that information. Just to be clear, we would pay this + pay into a Mutuelle as well?
I really appreciate that you took the time to reply.
So instead of one allowance and one payment per couple, you get two allowances and make two payments. I havenât done the sums, logically this should work out at the exact same figure, but calculated differently.
We had a bill for our first year in the French system-the year before it changed from CPAM to PUMA. Nothing since then I think thatâs 2/3 years with no demand for payment. Hope they donât want it all in one go!!
Over the past few years there have been quite a few changes to various systems in France, stuff like RSI payments, RSA and child allowance, all of it has been a monumental mess. Overpayment underpayment, no payments whatsoever to some people. If you have underpaid they will eventually catch up with you, as they will if you have been overpaid. Their usual argument is that you should have known you were overpaid or underpaying and put the money to one side.
Completely opposite to the UK, the French social security system pays you out before you update your info just in case you need the cash. Overpaid hundreds of millions of euroâs and is now trying to get it all back.
I personally think everyone who didnât have the right to vote in the referendum, should be apologised to and given a million quid tax free in compensation for all out grief.
Presumably you were sent your avis for 2015 cotisations at the end of 2015 and paid them in 2016.
If youâre due to pay anything for 2016, youâll be receiving the avis soon. Payment for year N is now calculated on your income tax return for year N, which you submit in year N+1, therefore the avis for year N is issued at the end of year N+1. Hence why no avis were sent out at the end of 2016 - because 2015 had already been paid, and cotisations for 2016 arenât due until the end of 2017. Likewise your cotisations for 2017 wonât be assessed until around this time next year.
If that makes sense.
Donât worry Trevor, yes the system has changed but there is a plan.
I know there is a plan, and I know when systems are changed things donât always go to plan, but what I donât understand is why they never ever seem to go to plan.
I donât know about âneverâ, personally touch wood I havenât had a single problem, but at the same time Iâm surprised by your comment that
because thatâs been very far from my experience. Iâve always had to provide full information and wait for everything to be validated and my rights to be confirmed, before Iâve received anything.
Trevor, this has all been discussed and agreed. The only spanner in the works could be if the UK crashes out and everything thatâs been negotiated so far is chucked out of the window.
Persons whose competent state is the
UK and are in the EU27 on exit day (and
vice versa) - whether on a temporary
stay or resident - continue to be eligible
for healthcare reimbursement,
including under the EHIC scheme, as
long as that stay or residence position
continues.
The withdrawal agreement also covers
entitlement to healthcare
reimbursement under the SI scheme
that arises by virtue of past residence or
work, in accordance with the personal
scope ofthe agreement in relation to
social security rights.
Thanks for the update Anna. I must say that I find it amazing how you manage to access such interdepartmental government notices with such apparent ease. You must have a direct line to the Elysee Palace.
It would seem that the base for the calculation of PUMa contributions has changed in one important way. Iâve looked at the text you suplied and my best efforts of translation are as follows : Subsidiary health insurance contributions are based in particular on income from land, movable capital, capital gains on the sale of goods or rights of any kind, industrial and commercial nonprofessional profits and profits of nonprofessional non-commercial professions, used for the calculation of the reference tax income in accordance with the procedure laid down in Article IV of Article 1417 of the General Tax Code.
What is remarkable is not so much what it does say but what it doesnât, as there is no mention of pension income.
Therefore it would seem that only income from land, shares, investments, capital gains, and income from non-professional profits (whatever they may be â royalties perhaps ?) are taken into account to calculate the contributions. Add to that the fact that each person in a couple is now given the personal allowance of 25% of the PASS (âŹ9,654) to offset against the above income before the 8% rate is applied to the remainder, and it would seem that the contributions for PUMa are substantially less than those for the old CMU system.
When one considers this reduction, together with the reductions for Taxe dâHabitation which are about to come into force, it really does make me wonder as to where the government will find the money to actually run the country. Perhaps it is those who have employment income who will end up bearing the burden.
Whilst a reduction in bills is always welcome, we are actually starting to feel a bit guilty about benefitting in such ways, so weâll have to review supporting local health charities a bit more I reckon.
I havenât received my bill from URSSAF yet, but then I havenât had the Avis dâImposition for our income tax either, and no doubt it is the detail on the latter which URSSAF uses in their calculations.
With the inception of the new computerised online tax return system it seems to be taking an absolute age to have anything sorted out this year, especially when two different bi-lateral tax agreements have to be taken into account for the same declaration. The online system seems to have been designed only for the less complicated categories of tax return.
Thatâs correct, there are no cotisations on pension income, though Iâm not sure exactly what types of pension income are included. I have a feeling that early retirement âpensionsâ donât count but could be wrong on that. âNon-professionalâ earnings would notably be rental income eg gites, chambres dâhĂŽtes etc. Most benefits are also excluded.
Yes but donât forget that for a couple, both partners now pay cotisations separately, whereas I think previously a couple was only charged one set of cotisations?
Presumably you did already receive something and you queried it? Cos all the avis dâimposition should have been received well before now. If you literally havenât received anything I think you need to find out why not.
I donât think you need feel guilty! France is aware that itâs one of the, if not the, most highly taxed countries in the EU, and Macron is trying to reduce the burden across the board; there are also plans to reduce the burdens on workers next year. The objective is to try and treat everyone fairly and make France a nice place for everyone to live, it doesnât always get it right but if you think itâs succeeding, Iâm sure Macron will be very chuffed.
All ifs buts and maybes for the moment, but due to the financial aspects of brexit I for one expect the UK government to cave in and agree to absolutely everything.