No, French tax is lower than that but it is all very complicated because total stoppages can be around 60% of your income! Truly! But the benefits back are monumental compared to other countries, so that is why and how they get away with it. There is, as far as I know, a DTT with CH but my wife is out today and is the one who knows. You'll probably find it by web searching anyway.
I lived in Belgium before moving to France and my Belgian Health provider refused to cover me as I lived abroad. So to join the French CMU I got a letter from Belgium stating that they wouldn't cover me anymore and therefore the CMU were obliged to take me on - for a payment of 8% of my annual revenue. In fact you dont need to earn money in France just show that you are solvent and not a burden on the system. In the beginning I had to show them my income records until I was in the French tax system and after that it is based on my "avis d'impots'. I also bought a top up private insurance. It's not cheap to be in the French system but at least the hospital care is good and one doesn't wait too long for treatment. CMU are obliged to cover anyone who lives here for more than 3 months and who doesn't have social security. If I were you I'd go and talk to the people in your local CMU office and don't take no for an answer. Act like it is your due - which in fact it is! Good luck.
Hi Pam,
So that treaty exists ? So basically, for example sake here, let's say he earns 100K in Switzerland and pays 15% of that to the Swiss authorities, does that meant if say in France he would be taxed at 30% that he would only pay the remaining to France or the full 30% and file for a reclaim ?
Thank you for this,
Lucy
Hi Brian,
Interesting point. Now I am feeling like a tax evader here !! I don't suppose you know of a DTT between Switzerland and France would you ? Also, I believe French Income tax rates are around 30%?
Thanks for all the help on this,
Lucy
Hi Courtney,
No. All of his work is conducted in either Switzerland or London and he pays his income tax local to where he works. If he were then to be taxed again is actually cheaper to take out the expensive medical cover !!!
Thank you though.
Lucy
Hi Debra,
If/when he works in London is never on a permanent basis, is only contract. So then we would only have coverage for maybe twelve out of twenty-four months... Our children also do not even have NI numbers !!
Thanks,
Lucy
Marvellous - Thank you Carmen
Hi Nick,
Thank you, until today, I had only heard good things about them. Is good to get other opinions to weigh them up.
Lucy
Hi Brian,
I am going to get onto the CMU this afternoon. I would prefer to use a French insurer simply as they have a better understanding of their own Health System. Is interesting what you said about PPP though, like anyone in the UK, if they can get away without paying up...
The only reason I want this insurance is peace of mind (heaven forbid) for those "what if" scenarios.
Thank you for the information. Very helpful indeed.
Lucy
Hi Lucy,
Thank you. AXAPPP so far are the front runners.
To be honest, is mainly to cover the "what if someone breaks a leg" scenario. Not that any of mine ever have (broken arm yes) and to be faced with such bills and knowing there was an option, I would kick myself and it also makes me feel very irresponsible and a bad parent !!!
Thank you though for the AXA, so far everyone who has used them say they are very good.
Lucy
Hello All and Lucy,
My general intuition is whatever you can find out in your area makes it easier in the long run. One of the downsides of the internet and going all over Europe etc. Local is better if possible for any service. CMU for students or foreigners or the private French local agencies that many people seem satisfied with.
On the insurance topic. A person really needs to be covered. The hospitals here and everywhere are very unforgiving of hospital debt. Hospital bills can end up as liens on property and are really buggers to get rid of. One thing about a hospital bill it is definately a bill that is quite noisey. There is quite an age old system engaged to get paid.
What I am trying to say it is "not" often worth the risk to go uninsured.
As for the tax thing. I am an American and we have to pay taxes FOR LIFE no matter where we live unless we earn less than 10K a year but you still need to file but they wont hunt you down in that case. And the worst part even Americans born abroad are held strictly to these rules. So my cute little Frenchie five year old who was born in Paris and has been on visits to the USA but by all means and purposes is a French boy is obligated by law until his death even if he never set foot in the USA again, to pay USA taxes. I have a good English friend here whose mom was an American and has never lived in the USA; and has to pay taxes and it annoys her a lot. And her son is not American automatically like mine which also annoys her a lot too.
As to be an automatic by birth american you've had to have had a parent who lived in the USA for THREE years after 14 years of age by proof of documentation, school or tax records etc. And my English friend was born in England and only visited in the USA her son is not an American anymore much much to her disappointment. Her brothers kids are because he lived there for three years as an adult. It is almost impossible to renounced American citizenship. I never would its not an issue. The people that do are the few nutballs and the super rich for tax purposes. And its a huge process and takes years. I have also met Americans in Europe who tried to not get their kids American passports etc scared of the taxes and draft. One was actually not allowed in the country because her kid was an American and it is a law you need to always enter on American documents if you have them. It is a felony to enter the USA if you hold any American document like a green card etc. And its all on computer believe me. So, She had to buy a flight back to Paris with her kid, and sternly warned that next time she would have a felony charge if she didn't have the proper documents for her American kid unless she officially renounced her American citizenship thus voiding his by birth.
I give these startling examples of how NOT stoppage the USA is. For me I don't mind it a bit. Have always carefully paid taxes and keep everything in tip top shape. I even read that the Human Rights courts in the Hague would like to have a trial about the legality of the American overreaching tax codes. Although nobody has the balls to try it yet. although plenty of the super rich renounce their citizenship just for tax reasons. Again I never ever would. I think only 500 mostly rich people or nutballs do this each year. Just adding to the stoppage tangent.
Anyhoo, on the stoppage topic. When I see all those illegal immigrants in the USA I sometimes think. Are you so sure you want to pay all these taxes for LIFE! get out while you can just kidding. There is so much cooooool 'legal' immigration of over 1 million a year of family bringing in family. I would love to immigrate my french family if anyone wanted to come with us if my husband retires ie my french step-kids. Its really really fast if you are family, six months, everything done. Not this bit by bit stuff for work visas.
I am totally at peace with paying USA taxes and am very used of that system. There is no stoppage clause. The American Embassy in Paris has plenty of info on the topic and a tax office and a social security office the outcome of that tax slog. We are also eligible for social security if we paid taxes. Everyone gets about a thousand bucks once we hit 65 or if we die our kids get it until they are 24 and we get it earlier if we are disabled.
As for health insurance I think if you can afford it it is good to have it than not.
Chris
Hi James,
Thank you. The problem is we declare no income here.....
Hi Brian,
Thank you for that. So far that is what I have been finding....
AXAPPP have so far given the best deal and package. Thank you.
Thank you Roger
I had AXA comprehensive insurance for a while a few years' ago
You do get it back - in time. There are agreements with European countries and they will (eventually) look at the official stuff from other places. What I meant about the stoppages wher eyou asked the question is as follows. If you are paid in country X, make it clear that you live in Y, then ask if you can be exempted from tax in X. That way you can pay in Y, which in this case is France. The UN agencies I sometimes work for will always do that unless the country they are in (Viet Nam, for example take 20% irrespective) takes the stoppages up front anyway. It takes some negotiation, which is time and effort (plus nerves) but the 'double taxation' is usually (not always) dealt with by the 'difference' being reimbursed. For EU countries and CH we reckon three to four months in most cases. Some we lose because they simply will not consider it, usually because there is no real (in their terms) 'official' tax statement then it is double taxation. We got a help into dealing with this from a friend's wife who is an accountant, does his company's accounts which includes importing materials and labour as well as normal wages, etc. My OH was advised to immediately register with URSSAF by the CH Embassy when we moved here from the UK, which we wish the UK authorities would do for people in the kind of predicament some of the people here are clearly in. Also, doing things by the book in France is the only way we are completely armed to go to battle with them when we suspect or know something is wrong.
Brain
Thanks for that, so I am correct in saying register through USSR oops sorry I meant URSSAF, and as you say trying to evade is pointless in the long run. I am currently going through this pain barrier. I am employed by my UK company and do some work from home here (Fr) so fall into this situation.
You tax situation looks deplorable.. double taxed! I'm no tax expert but that sounds just wrong.
Could you clarify what you mean by "do something about having stoppages here if it is possible to be exempted at sources" I don't get your meaning!
You right about the not easy bit.
Regards
Courtney
Dead right Pam, BUT it takes an age to get it back and the way it goes is that we have to pay here before we get back what we should. I have been paid from four countries a couple of years back, two of whom stopped tax, etc and consequently was more or less accused of obfuscation by the authorities here for having it work out that way! Money repaid three months later, for example, is not money we can use until it is returned, which is highly inconvenient.
Carmen
Are the quotations I am seeing at ASFE-expat web site for full cover.. its not top up is it as it seems very good value?
Thank you for your time
Courtney