Minority and persecuted groups

General Discussion
21

Easy Carol, I know a couple of people who have worked in the area thus knew a little about the topic, which allowed me to know what to look for, then Wikipedia saved me the bother of scanning several book pages. Paix!

22

Phil, you may not see the point but this is an example of how complicated it all is.

Chattha, Bains , Sandhu, Kalirai, Dhaliwal, Ghuman, Ballagan, Cheema, Dhahan, Kuhar, Mand, Daher, Hayer, Brar, Sindhu, Bhola, Bajwa, Bhangoo/Bhangu, Sidhu, Jyani, Maan, Yadavavansh, Raghuvansh, Pandava, Antil, Paurava, Kuruvanshi, Tanwar, Chambal, Salkhalan, Assoun, Jakhar, Kushan, Budhwar, Dhillon, Sidhu Sanghera, Bandesha, Deshwal, Dalal, Kadiyan, Dhami, Maan, SihagKadian, Hundet, Lamba, Pachar, Punia, Lalla, Balan, Nava, Mahal, Taxak, Thathaal,, Kakrana, Chandravanshi, Shivi, Banwala, Madra, Bhimbhraulia, Sangwan, Manj, mor Naich, Ganshi, Hala Suryavanshi, Waseer Dhatt, Tarar, Makhdoom, Waraich, Glotar, Chiniot, Gill, Nahal, Dhugga, Gandhari, Kundu, Kuntal, Assoun, Ahlawat, Chedi, Sinsinwar, Bhind, Dahima, Nehra, Tewatia, Vahika, Bais Rajputs, Magadh, Majhail, Manj, Mohil, Tushar, Malloi (Malwa), Sikarwar, Sisodia, Sulehria, Kharoud, Dagur, Kakurath, Kak, Kakk, Kukkur, Gandhir, Gandir, Gandila, Gandasia, Gul, Gala, Golia, Galaran, Manj, Gahlot, Harawat, Chauhan, Solanki, Parihar, Parmar, Thakurela, Chhokar, Thenua, Chapotkat, Rana, Godara, Dixit, Mithe, Chatte, Khatte, Janghare, Bhagaur, Lohchab, Thakur, Antal, Antil, Malik, Gathwale, Jatrana, Chaudhari Tomar or Tomer, Manj, and Rajora.

I have, of course, only given the Jat clans as an example. All other tribes are also subdivided into clans as well.

Some clans within tribes have been at 'war' with each other for centuries although the tribes themselves tend to get on. This example is far 'simpler' than African societies, believe it or not, because they have a common religion and belong to one sect of that religion. In Africa don't even try, they are not all converts to Christianity or Islam by a long way. In Rwanda only small minorities of the dominant Tutsi and Hutu were at war and both groups were being lead by people with secular political interests in mind; i.e. power. They exploited the people and amongst the 800,000 people killed there were many Twa and people from various Bantu tribes in border regions who mainly go unmentioned. I believe that apart from Christianity there were at least 60 religious groups involved.

It is always too complicated to put in simple terms.

23

ah sorry Carol I should read before I post.

24

johnny you defined it....It is not religion which causes wars it is mankind.

Religion if often a word used in the place of power.

And power is usually very dangerous.

Maybe we should go back to ice cream.Mc Donalds and holidays with the family.

25

Catherine

Profile photo attached. I thought I had done this before but I must have clicked on the wrong button.

I was not trying to attack any group but trying to show how group behaviour can lead to suspicion by others. There is a subtle pressure within groups to maintain cohesion, (sometimes not so subtle) which although entirely logical does bring with it risks of misinterpretation by others. An uncle of mine "married out" of the Jewish faith and certainly faced a degree of censure from family and friends.

26

:-D

27

aïe aïe aïe, this is a contentious one :-O

second Johnny's observations and am pleased that Catharine has issued a heads up.

Me, I'm off to the out-laws for the day 15 août and all that, no nothing to do with the religious festival just doing the done thing in rural France (does that put me/us into an Aveyronnais tribe... yes it does in the local landscape!) and the kids always like going to the farm ;-)

28

Everyone should watch out for McDonalds. Go to Quick instead.

29

Oh dear, as a Milne I am part of the Gordon clan and clans being the strata below tribes, does it mean I have to watch out for MacDonalds? Hmmm, politics and tribalism. Tsk!

30

By exclusive I mean that people not part of that group are excluded. I am unsure what else I could have meant.

In Africa you are born into a tribal group which you can never leave nor can you join another tribal group. The results were shown in graphic form in the great Rwanda massacres of the the late 20th century (Tutsi-Hutu conflict). These periodic outbursts have not gone away and still occur in Central Africa. Most of the political rivalries in Africa are along tribal lines.

31

Morning campers!

A few points…

The Roma discussion was closed by the op- not admin. There are no “what can and can’t be discussed” type rules on SFN so Phil is perfectly within his rights to raise this subject. However…I’ve said it before and I will say it again, personal attacks and rudeness will not be tolerated so please think very carefully before posting on subjects such as politics and religion as they tend to be the ones people feel strongly about and thus, don’t perhaps, always express themselves calmly.

Please keep the dinner party rule in mind and on that subject, Phil, please make sure you upload a profile photo before posting again as this is an important factor in keeping things civilised. Thanks!

32

Neil ....everyone.

This is a massive subject and the problems surrounding it will not be solved

in our lifetime...or ever...

But I do wish that the Italian Ice cream makers would open their buisness in

my village or near by.

I have not found decent ice cream yet.

33

The contrast on one night on the BBC news with all the smiling (and crying) faces of competitors from all over the world and the audience at the Olympics and then the next item of Syrians bombing the hell out of each other was very striking. Tribes are still a very strong force in our societies which may or may not be be based on religious groupings. Anyone who lives and works in a foreign country naturaly gravitates to their fellow tribal members whether it is Flemish weavers in east Anglia or Italian ice cream makers in Glasgow.

34

I think you are entirely wrong, what you mean is a minority of each minority behaves 'that way 'but in reality suspicion is toward minorities from the majority and marginalises them. What on earth do you mean by 'tribal groupings in Africa are also exclusive and we still see the results today'? What results? What is meant by exclusive there?

I do not favour or practice any religion but the statement you make there, whether your belief or not, implying the possibility that 'that belief in a god is the single greatest evil present in the world' is offensive to the majority of people who do believe in a god or gods and whilst you may think it, this is not the forum in which to express such a view.