While reading the posts on the Roma clearances (closed indecently quickly I thought) I started thinking about the various different minorities that have been discriminated against in the past and still today to see if I could discern a common thread.
There do appear to be a couple of elements which are common:
1-Exclusive groupings. The Jewish population and the travelling peoples have both tended to exclude the bulk of any population that they live amongst. This I feel sure is a source of suspicion which can so easily be turned to hatred by politicians. This is today extended to the Muslim immigrants who generally shut out non Muslims from their lives and create their own country within a country. This contrasts with the non-Muslim peoples from Asia who are much more inclusive in their dealings with the people who already live in their host countries.The tribal groupings in Africa are also exclusive and we still see the results today.
2-Religious conflict. Here we have ample evidence of the savagery that can be inflicted on one group of believers by members of a rival group which continues to this day.
We have Catholics vs Protestants in the past and present. Sunni vs Shia very much in the present. Muslim vs Hindu , Muslim vs Jews and Muslims vs Christians,Christians vs Jews--- the list just goes on. I am tempted to believe that belief in a god is the single greatest evil present in the world.
Not sure we can do anything about all this because our political leaders are US. They are not a special group of people but have all the faults and prejudices of the average person.
Who said I wanted to shut people down? I simply asked if this was the place to put that question. So far nobody has taken offence, because I guess nobody of a religious leaning has bothered to enter this post. I imagine they realised they would be 'shouted down'. My 'objection' was that if a dispute between believers and non-believers (including yours truly) began then hatred could have manifested itself in the debate. It has happened in other discussion and is sometimes ugly. Before you make such judgements as displeasure, read the whole thread rather than assuming that words used early are definitive.
Hi Brian. I am surprised and displeased that you want to shut down people whose opinions might offend. If Dave says he is " tempted to believe that belief in a god is the single greatest evil present in the world", this is a perfectly legitimate place to say it. Let people say what they want on this site, my only proviso is that is don't spread hate and violence.
Complex and touching subject. In one way my heart goes out to them. In other ways I’m fed up with them under the car park in front of our house; partying, fighting, getting drunk, leaving a god awful mess and keeping everyone awake until 3-4 am, 2-3 nights a week despite repeated attempts by the police to deal with the situation.
Everything is beautiful from far away. Being up close is a different story.
You said:- “The Jewish population and the travelling peoples have both tended to exclude the bulk of any population that they live amongst. This I feel sure is a source of suspicion which can so easily be turned to hatred by politicians. This is today extended to the Muslim immigrants who generally shut out non Muslims from their lives and create their own country within a country.”
…you mean, er, a bit like various enclaves of Brits here in France, Phil?
I like that, Catherine. Theres a popular myth that 'we are all the same' or something simiar...but I think its true to say that people are shaped by cultures, (not irrevocably) and cultures are clearly, often very different. It takes tolerance and insight to adapt to the differences of those cultures.That simply doesnt happen easily without understanding and experience - that your University seems to have been determined to offer. Good for them, and you - good idea, well done, sez I. It seems to be true that humans are *very adaptable*, however - with too narrow a view of the world, it is too easy to be drawn into ideas of 'we' are right and 'they' are wrong. That can be devastating, heartbreaking - when cultures clash, especially for children and old folks, who always get the rough end of the deal.
I suppose the grave error too often made is in accepting micro cultures within cultures, power groups, that may have very different or completely opposing views *in key issues*, eg womens rights, or family law. Cherished values, that if discarded might bring about the destruction of a peaceful and valuable way of life.
I do not believe that religion is the root of discrimination - it is just human nature to reject what we do not understand for whatever reason, mostly ignorance. The African continent is no exception - it is human beings living there. Just as in the UK, the Scots now want to do their own thing, the Welsh to a lesser degree etc. Same as in any part of the world. It is a human problem and the only cure is education.
At my old Uni residence in Paris- Cite Universitaire- u sign an agreement that u will accept to live with whomsoever the authority gives u as a room-mate. The policy was to mix up the races, educate people and promote understanding amongst nations. On the basis of that, u are given a room at a highly subsidised rate. If u're African, u'll be sure to share a room with English, French, any nationality but African. At the end of ur 4 year stay, u become a true citizen of the world. That is how this African married an Englishman, and lived 25 years in England to raise my children. And now retired in France, my children live in USA and the Arab Peninsula with their Australian and West Indian spouses. I inculcated in my children, the lesson I was taught in France. U can live anywhere provided u try to learn the language of your host country and understand their culture. With that policy, the world gradually becomes a big village where everyone knows/understands everyone else (and there is less tension or discrimination) - just a matter of education. And Africans are no exception!
I have another view as well, which is that people might see it and ask to be taken off SFN because they think things are going too far rather than speak up and be put down for it. All expressions of what people think are possible, or?
Yes Cate he did, but he also made reference to inter-ethnic conflict with the Rwanda example. I was pushing the boat out a bit, but my point is that it is not as simple as saying there is A and B, they are the people of that country and they thrash the stuffing out of each other. The Pakistani example is to show how easy it is not to assume that. As for the blaming God bit, people of faith may well be very disturbed by the way it was expressed, the correlation of god and evil may be true for many of us but be highly offensive to others. We must bear everybody in mind when expressing such views and my point is that this is not the forum in which to do that.