'Missing' boxes on forms!

Hi - thanks for all the advice so far offered - the blue tax form arrived today, and seems to be lacking the box I need to add teaching pension. I’d been told it should go in 1AC but can’t find one of those on either (2042 or 2947) form.
I know they change the forms slightly each year, so has anybody found where I SHOULD put the amounts, PLEASE !!!
Thank you in advance.

Hi Curtis - Box 1AC is in Section 1 on form 2042C (Complémentaire). No need to put anything on your 2042 or 2047 for this type of income. However…if it’s a teaching pension taxed at source then it should really be entered in box 1AH etc. Box 1AC is reserved for taxed salaries.

I think that Connexion advises declaring this income in box 1AL/1BL as well as putting them on form 2047. There is a tax forms update article on their website. I just wish that they would leave the forms alone as every time they change them it causes confusion.

LOL - You know what - I strongly advocate doing whatever you feel like. Naturally The Connexion are always right…:frowning:

Si vous êtes domicilié en France et percevez des salaires ou des pensions de source étrangère exonérés d’impôt sur le revenu en France mais retenus pour le calcul du taux effectif, en application de la convention fiscale, remplissez les cases 1AC et suivantes (sans les indiquer en case 8TI) que vous disposiez ou non d’autres revenus de source étrangère. Si vous ne disposez pas d’autres revenus de source étrangère, vous êtes dispensé de souscrire la déclaration no 2047.

Thanks Simon, but I guess that still depends on whether the pension is “exonéré” or whether it attracts a “crédit d’impôt égal au montant de l’impôt français”. Do you have a source for determining this? I wonder if it actually makes any difference to the final outcome.

Tony, in this case exonéré simply refers to amounts already taxed in the UK. There is no source for determining it - it either has, or has not been taxed in the UK.

The UK has the right to tax the pension income as it is held in and originates from the UK. As per the double taxation treaty between France and the UK - you can’t pay ‘double’ income tax on the same income. So, France simply takes the net pension revenue into account which may, or may not, affect your nominal scale rates in France.

It may make a difference to the outcome but that very much depends on your overall, global picture.

Social charges will of course be due on any pension income where the recipient is affiliated to the French health system.

Thank you Simon, but I don’t think that can be right. This is from impots.gouv.fr and describes 2 cases where credits are given to money that has been taxed abroad.

•Le montant du crédit d’impôt est représentatif de l’impôt étranger. Le montant du revenu avant déduction de l’impôt payé à l’étranger, doit être déclaré sur la déclaration 2047 et reporté dans la rubrique concernée de la déclaration 2042. De plus, le crédit d’impôt doit être indiqué lignes 8VL / 8VM / 8WM / 8UM de la déclaration 2042.
•Le montant du crédit d’impôt est égal au montant de l’impôt français correspondant aux revenus de source étrangère. Le montant de ces revenus, avant déduction de l’impôt payé à l’étranger, doit être déclaré sur la déclaration 2047 et reporté sur la déclaration de revenus dans les rubriques correspondantes, en fonction de la nature des revenus. Le montant total de ces revenus doit, par ailleurs, être indiqué ligne 8TK de la déclaration 2042.

Also despite being affiliated to the French health system and declaring my government pension income I have never been asked to pay social charges on it. Not that I would object to paying social charges if that was the correct thing to do.

Tony - Page 8 should help.

I am responding to the original posters query who has been advised to enter his pension in box 1AC. Therefore I am assuming his pension qualifies for exoneration.

Those not affiliated to the French health system (i.e. those in receipt of an S1 or having fully private medical cover) are not liable to social charges, and those in receipt of Government Service Pensions are not liable to social charges on that income.

Thanks, that is great. I was looking for that document but did not find it on the impot site. I think the original poster said it was a teaching pension, and assuming that is from the UK then that is a government service pension. Strangely NHS pensions are not.

The double taxation treaty article 24, paragraph 3 and section a) i) seems to apply in this case and suggests that the tax credit should be applied, although to be honest it is written in gobbledygook and so I could be totally wrong about that.

1 Like

Sorry to but in here, you say nhs pensions are not classed as government pensions, but they are subject to tax in the uk, where, then do they fall as per french tax forms. Help!

Hi Lynne. It is entirely possible that I am wrong. I was guided by the notes on this page https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/liability-income-tax/income/ which I grant you cannot be considered a trusted source, but also by the notes from this government page where the second to last paragraph suggests that most nhs pensions are not government pensions https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343030
If you know for a fact that your pension must be taxed in the UK then I guess that it must count as a government service pension. In which case I think that the connexion guidance is right and that they must be reported in 1AL/BL as well as on form 2047 section 1.11. As to where else it might need to be reported I am not sure. I have ended up with it in 8TK on the 2042 form and if I remember correctly the software (on-line declaration) forced me to put it there after I filled one of the other boxes in. I am not convinced this is right and so I am looking for confirmation elsewhere.

Thank you for the info. Looks like nhs pensions are not gov pensions.
Because of the Trust status of most hospitals etc. I will hope to clarify
this when the hmrc finally return my phone call.

Lynne - would be good if you could post the answer you get as I would be interested in the decision about NHS pensions - weather it is classed as a government pension or not.

So I sent a message to the tax office using their on-line messaging thing yesterday afternoon, asking them to confirm which boxes a uk gov service pension should be declared in and 15 minutes later I had a reply. Awesome service !!!
Anyway assuming that I explained the question to them properly in my mangled French then the response was that it should be declared in 2042 1AL/BL, 2042 8TK and 2047 section 1.11
I am still going to include a note explaining what I have done just in case a different person has a different opinion, and if anybody else gets different advice I would be interested to hear it.

Hi Curtis,

I’ve just completed mine and I put my Teachers Pension in Cadre VI (2047) and also the new box 1 AL on the 2047. You then insert this figure in the new 1AL on the 2042. The French have improved the form because in underling the fact that this box carries with it the right to a tax credit they break new ground. You can also put something in the remarks box INFORMATIONS pointing out that this income is exempt from lability to Social charges because of Article 19 Double Tax Convention.

Hope this helps.

Best Wishes


Thanks for that Tim. I had totally missed the 2047 section 6 as I am completing on line and that particular section had not been activated. I note that the figure from 2047 section 6 must also be reported to 2042 8TK. I wonder why the tax office did not tell me about section 6 when I asked them about where to put the pension.
Anyway this means that I now have declared the same figures in 4 different places, form 2042 1AL and 8TK and form 2047 section 1 and section 6. Does that sound right to you?

Yep - that’s what it says to do on the top of the 2047 (see below). Effectively you’re declaring it and then claiming the tax credit.

Les revenus de source étrangère imposables en France doivent être
déclarés dans les rubriques 1 à 5 de cette déclaration et reportés dans
les mêmes rubriques de la déclaration no 2042. Selon ce que prévoit la
convention signée entre la France et le pays de source des revenus
pour éviter la double imposition, remplissez ensuite la rubrique 6 ou 7.
Remplissez également la rubrique 9 pour vos revenus d’activité et de
remplacement imposables aux contributions sociales.

Hi Tony,

Yes, I believe it does. In the past we ( my wife is also is entitled to a teachers pension) have been taxed as if our income was an accumulation of the figures ie double tax. We obtained a reclamation. Last year the French tax authorities in our area insisted that there was still a need to enter the teachers pension in both Cadre 6 on the 2047 and in both Box TK and Box 1AS on the 2042. The problem then for us, and others, is that the old 1AS on the 2042 was the only box available to locate both governmental pensions (teachers pensions) which are subject to a credit, and state pensions which are fully taxable by the French. This year the availability of the new section 1AL/1BL for pensions benefiting from a credit should point up the difference. Thus 1AL for T P’s and 1AM for old age state pensions.

The new 4BL, in respect of revenu locations, similarly seems to me to be a genuine attempt to flag up the fact that the UK rental income, while it is technically “imposable”, is also, really, simply to be “taken into account”.

Best Wishes

Thanks Tim and Simon. I have never used box 1AS before and just put the pension in 8TK and section 6 of 2047, along with a note explaining what I have done. Nobody has complained and I have not been double taxed and the final revenue fiscal de reference has always been correct. However this year I will try using the 1AL and section 1 on 2047 as well and we will see what happens.

thank you all, again, for your suggestions and comments - am tackling the forms today.