Morning all. We have a second home in France already and absolutely love it here but we don’t know what we don’t know about living here full time. So, what are the pitfalls about selling up in the uk and moving here full time?
How rural is it?
What’s the there like in winter?
How good is your French?
Do you meet the visa requirements?
1 Like
A few k from the nearest town with all main amenities. We have been there over winter and love it. French is basic but I will improve, husbands is much better than mine. Yes we would meet the visa requirements…..
1 Like
Hi.
Can you tell us which department you’re in, maybe? Also, have you spent the whole of a winter or the whole of a summer there?
1 Like
I asked as rural French winters feel somewhat isolating if you’re not regularly interacting with the locals and the seasonal cafes/bistros are closed.
1 Like
Whilst it’s not at the forefront of people’s minds when thinking of moving to France, several members on this forum have cited France’s inheritance laws as potential deal-breakers, especially if there are children involved. Some have actually moved back/are considering moving back to the UK/US etc to avoid being caught up in a regime that is radically different from Anglo-Saxon common law jurisdictions. An issue for some is that you can’t disinherit your children/decide who to leave your estate to, especially if there are children involved plus, complexities with step children, adopted children etc.…
2 Likes
Agreed, but it wouldn’t have stopped us coming 20 years ago and having the most wonderful 2 decades.
Imagine NOT moving and then spending the rest of one’s life regretting that decision.
4 Likes
I would second pretty much everything that @George1 has said, as well as agreeing completely with @SuePJ 's last comment.
To expand a bit…if my wife predeceases me & I then leave my step children the remaining part of the estate that I would have kept they get to pay 60% tax on everything above their personal allowance of 1594€. Under French law I don’t have to pass on anything to them - to avoid paying a ridiculous tax I’d have to leave everything to a charity instead.
Another factor is whether you have close family that you would be leaving behind, & who might produce grandchildren. We had none when we moved full time in 2004 (& seemingly none on the horizon), but we now have 5. They are a big draw.
Of course, none of that may apply to you.
1 Like
I think the biggest question to ask yourself is about people. Have you developed a social circle here, and how tight is your social circle where you live now? Can you replicate all the activities that you enjoy? People will say they’ll come to visit, but it is natural that that drops off after a while. We still have about 3 visits a year from different UK friends, but used to be much more (and actually 3 is just fine now!). So our direct social contact is the French people we have come to know over the 20 years we have been here. You need to think hard about that.
The next issue is the bureaucracy. Moving to France is initially a massive paper-fest of non-integrated processes and muddled information, plus no uniform national approaches despite what legislation may or may not say. So are you prepared for at least 12 months of administrative confusion? I personally have no problems with the bureaucracy now and it’s all fine - but it does take some getting used to.
And some people never really adapt to the French way of doing things, and repeatedly refer to the way things were in their home country. Or want things to be different. Which is totally pointless and saps energy.
And then there’s the getting older issue to reflect on. Are the house, the location and your abilities adapted to changes that result from ageing? Are you 20 blue light minutes from a major A&E? And a decent CHU?
And financially could you move without losing the ability to move back?
3 Likes
Are you sure about that, I have been involved with a 21 month deadlock with a silent notaire and presumably non co-operating 3 step children precisely because of that law. Apart from the property which they will only get part of when I die, there is also around € 9,000 in a savings account which is blocked from me, perhaps for up to 8 more years.
Very sure. Your situation is to do with the natural children of your deceased wife who have strong claims on what is/was hers.
Under French law step children count as much as some random bloke you talked to last week in the local bar.
I can’t answer your question as I am also “just” a second home owner - currently juggling work with (way too few) visits to France. But I am interested to hear the view of others as it is a question that has been occupying my own mind as well.
When we bought the house in 2015 it seemed “obvious” that the move would be to retire to France when we hit pension age.
Nowadays I am not so sure.
The biggest factor, of course, is Brexit. We have lost the right to live in Europe - while I think we will have no problems meeting the income requirements for an inactif visa it is suddenly a lot of paperwork. Even a tourist visa which would allow us to stay longer than the 90 day Schengen limit would involve quite a bit of bureaucracy.
Then there is the need to plug into the French tax and health system. I know that France has a good health service - we are 30 minutes drive away from the hospital in Vannes which appears to have 1400 beds, making the provision about 25% higher per capita than our local NHS service at regional level. But then, France tends to have more beds per capita.
But, that aside, it is clear from conversations on SF that the health service in France is culturally very different from the UK, and has the same problem with rural provision of primary care, which tends to hit Brits in France as we often wind up in rural locations.
I know that many do retire to France or Spain and negotiate these hurdles successfully - but I won’t be able to move until I hit the national retirement age of 67 in four years (and a bit). Personally I’m worried that the culture change could be overwhelming and I’m not sure I have the same appetite for it as I did when I was 50.
Language is also a (bit of a) problem - my French is not great as I have observed many times but I manage with written stuff (OK I use a lot of Google Translate but we do live in the 21st century after all) and I reckon I still have enough brain power to improve my French generally and spoken specifically ifwe move but there are now formal requirements for a >1 year CdS. OK it’s only A2 which I could possibly manage even now but my wife would not be able to and she has struggled to improve her level (adult education in the UK seems to be predicated on people not working - conversational French classes at 2:30PM in the local library do not work when you have a job and it is 25 miles away).
Then there is the political situation. I can’t vote even in local elections as I am not an EU citizen. So if I wanted to be involved politically I would need to become a French citizen - apart from the fact that I would be in my early 70’s before I could even start the process, nationality is effectively a closed door no matter how much I integrate myself into the local community because I will never be able to move my pension income such that it is generated in France (also, the language requirement is a lot higher).
So, I think it will be 6-8 week stays using my Schegen allowance to stay in France ~40-45% of the time and back in the UK for the rest. But who knows. By the time I retire Farage could be PM. Indeed I am worried it is all too likely and, although that might not make moving to France easier (probably the opposite) it might revitalise my willingness to try to deal with the bureaucracy.
There again Bardella might be French President, which would be a definite disincentive.
Oh well 
3 Likes
Wot he said 
1 Like
Don’t keep one foot in the UK if you want to live here full time, you need to immerse yourselves here 100% and not keep going back every few months or you will never stay the course, saw it happen to so many brits in the 90’s who just could not let go and live a French life full time and they lost out big time. We bought our French house 37 years ago and moved full time a few years later and back then there was no internet or home computer info like today plus we had to get a carte de séjour immediately and change our driving licences and then it became easier but since Brexit, it has changed completely. French bureaucracy is totally different to the UK and should you fall on hard times, you won’t get benefits etc unless you have worked and paid in here first, they are very strict on that so you need a regular monthly income to satisfy the new visa requirements and then also medical cover until you can join the CPAM with contributions to be paid etc and a mutuelle to cover the other parts not. Having a large rural and possibly isolated property is OK for holidays but consider old age and not being able to drive any longer, the size of land to be kept down and the maintenance of said large property plus what happens when one of you dies (been there and got the teeshirt). As for socialising, you will find all manner of things locally that may interest you, personally speaking I am not a social animal and enjoy my own company but then I have family and grandchildren nearby and spend time with them instead. Only you can make the decision which is different for everyone considering the move but you cannot keep comparing like for like, its too different!
4 Likes
I thought that they were my step children. What else would you call them?
The ones that can’t inherit anything?
And where do step children other than mine come from?
Clearly Fran’s children are your step children, but as I said…
…which is not the same as you (as a stepfather) wanting to leave a stepchild, say, property worth 100 000€, & them having to paying 60% tax on 98 406€ of that (that being 59 043,60€).
I see, but I thought you were talking about compulsory inheritance, which is what might inform the OP, not freely given gifts to anyone. I suppose you were just making the point about the tax they would have to pay then?
Yes, it was.
I was going to start picking out relevant points but they are all totally relevant and one size doesn’t fit all.
As @SuePJ had said, the last 2 decades for her and hubby has been the experience of a lifetime as it has for us but again, like others have said, old age suddenly becomes a reality and what you could do 20 years ago evaporates in the blink of an eye.
I dont agree that socialising is essential, again we are all different.
I think the most important thing is not to make yourself a property prisoner. Yes, houses are still much cheaper in France than in the UK but always best if you have the financial means to return.
You only have one life sp live your dream but also be sensible enough not to turn it into a nightmare.
Sadly moving to Europe now is not what it was 20 years ago.
7 Likes
Agreed. We have been supremely fortunate in that we inherited a flat in the UK from OH’s mother and that brought us additional income and when we sold it a year ago it gave us the necessary funds to enable us to buy a small house and thus decouple the process of selling in France and buying in the UK.
I strongly recommend NOT burning one’s boats and moving to France without a backward glance. It’s perhaps easier for those who come over young and start a family and grow up “French”. For those of us who come older, there is always the possibility of not making a go of it, having health issues, dealing with missing out on grandchildren growing up, and wanting to go back, but finding the funds are just not there to buy where one wants to. A very tough one.
4 Likes