I just did a clean install of Windows 10 on a friend’s PC. The only way I could get it to not force me to use a Microsoft account for the login account was to disable the wi-fi connection. Otherwise it required me to use either a Microsoft account or a security key such as a Yubikey (which incidentally I have for work purposes and love 
).
Might be different if you’re doing an in-place upgrade from Win7/ Win8.
Well that didn’t work. When I say that I have forgotten my password I am taken to a Microsoft panel. This offers me 3 ways to get a code to start the process. Only 2 work for me not having a smartphone. Tried the SMS choice but the panel to put in the last 4 digits of my phone number simply just kept on flashing and wouldn’t allow any imput.
So I tried the email route. But of course, without getting logged on I can’t receive an email.
Makes a bit of a mockery of the constant urgings to change your password from time to time.
When I went back to my emails there were no less than 5 different emails with 3 different codes to put into the box, and one code in a text message. None of them was accepted. At one point it opened up Skype but demanded a password and, of course, it wouldn’t accept the one I chose. In the end I left it alone and went back to my original password.
Not the most stressful 50 minutes of my life, but close, I won’t be trying again. What a bunch of useless machines.
I cast my mind back 40 years not long after I took over as Transport manager at Courtauld’s. There were no computer aids in the transport office to help with the routing of long distance multi drop deliveries so I sent a request to the computer department to have a simple program installed called Autoroute. Unfortunately it had just been taken over by Microsoft and the chief of the department hated MS with a passion. So much so that he refused point blank to grant my wishes, thus condemning me to hours well into the night every Friday to sort all the loads out for Monday.
Things went on like this for several years till eventually the then head of Courtaulds, Sir Christopher Cazenove, came round on a visit. In chatting to me he remarked how he had started his career in a traffic office just like mine and said ‘of course, in those far off days we didn’t have all the computer aids to route the lorries that you have now’, and winked at me. His face was a picture when I replied, ‘we still don’t Christopher’ (Even in those days we were on first name terms from top to bottom, unlike in so-called egalitarian France today 
). Within a week we were well on our way to the installation which served us well for very many years, but today I do have some sympathy for that computer centre manager. Microsoft bastards. 
Here’s my 3rd, and possibly final( 
) bite of the cherry for today.
I have received the dongle/memory stick this morning and placed it in a vacant port but am faced with 3 choices to kick it off.
Remembering that there is almost nothing in my house that could be described as smart, could someone advise which of the following routes I should take?
Install SanDisc software type dmg 540 KB
Install SanDisc software type application 691 KB
PDF SanDisc software type Microsoft Edge PDF document 294 KB
Once I get past this point I can transfer the file with all my passwords on to it and delete the sources.
One other question please. As long as my computer is switched on (at the moment the whole day from get up to go to sleep) I understand that my favourite hacker can get inside it for his/her nefarious ends.
But if I put it into sleep mode, would that protect it?
Supplementary question, if the answer is no, what is the point of sleep mode? 
This is software for Apple Mac. You don’t need it (and it won’t work under Windows).
This is just an electronic copy of the user guide.
Just because your computer is switched on doesn’t mean it’s necessarily accessible. Your router (the device provided by your Internet Server Provider, that your PC connects to in order to reach the internet) has a firewall on it… it’s designed to block unwanted incoming traffic.
Plus I thought the problem you’ve been having is that the credentials for your Microsoft account was obtained. An attacker is more likely to log in to your emails remotely (i.e. via orange.fr or hotmail.com, etc…) than logging in to your PC remotely.
So, yes, a PC that’s in hibernation mode or is switched off is more secure than one that’s switched on… but just having your PC switched on isn’t necessarily a big risk, as mentioned above.
Lastly, the biggest advantage of sleep mode over actually powering down your PC is that it’s quicker for your PC to resume. Less of an issue with today’s hardware, admittedly, where a PC can be powered on and be up and running in a very short time… but years ago it used to take several minutes for a PC to be ready if being powered on.
Hope that’s helpful 
Really helpful, Gareth, exactly what I wanted to know . 
Going to do the deed now and it can sleep during the day when I do (or go elsewhere ) More
Like I said before @David_Spardo
Or allow someone (your attacker) to install software
One thought on your ‘password solution’ (may have said this before) - your memory stick - you should have the password file encrypted - just like the password manager I mentioned…
You could lock it up physically, but if it gets stolen…
Unencrypted, it’s really just the same as if you wrote all your passwords in a notebook…
(which could also be made to work as a secure solution)
Thanks again, but I am exhausted. Just tried again to change my MS password.
The route is Start - Settings - Accounts - Sign in Options - Password - Change.
Fine, except that the Password option is not there.
So by a roundabout route I came to a place where it invited me to change the password.
So I did exactly as I was told and was rewarded with 'Your password has been changed, we have sent you an email confirming it.
Great, and yes, there’s the email confirming my password had been changed. Yippee !!
Tested it. Power - Off - Restart. Password. Wrong password. Old Password and in I go. Yet another hour wasted on these morons, they are really not interested in security are they?
I’ll stick with the old and keep it safe. I’ll investigate the encryption you recommended but not now, later, maybe tomorrow. 
This is difficult to troubleshoot without seeing it having access to the machine but it sounds to me like accessing your computer is via a local account (i.e. one that exists solely on your computer and cannot be used on any other machine) rather than via a “Microsoft account” (that’s got a password stored centrally by Microsoft and could be used theoretically on other machines).
I don’t doubt that you have a Microsoft account because you’ve been able to change the password, as evidenced by the email confirming the password was successfully changed, but it sounds to me like it’s not the one you’re using to log in to your PC when you power it on.
saved me typing that mate, cheers
Occurred to me too after I calmed down last night.
So what we are saying is that I have changed successfully a password that is required, somewhere for MS, but I need to be looking elsewhere to change this ‘local’ one.
Trouble is, if I click underneath the panel where that password goes, where it asks ‘forgot your password’, it is to MS that it takes me for a new one. 
If I were you, I’d not worry about changing the password for the “local” account. The original email you received was in relation to a different account.
Hmm, yes, let’s hope that I have done enough to counter it then. 
A new problem cropped up last night. I got 2 emails which were very suspect.
The first purported to come from Amazon FR saying that a purchase I made that day had accidentally been duplicated but the wrongly taken amount would be reimbursed if I clicked on a link. Of course I didn’t and this morning trying to flag it with Amazon was not easy.
The 2nd was apparently from PayPal. An outfit I fell out with and have had no dealings with for getting on for 10 years. It said that I hadn’t made my regular payments over the last 6 months or so and thus my account has been cancelled. It then tells me how to get it back. Yeah right, as if.
I immediately checked my bank account and nothing suspicious there. I checked the dates to find out why 2 recent purchases from Amazon have not been recorded. On checking others though it is clear that there is a 2 day delay between purchase confirmation and payment, so everything is normal there.
What stumped me at Amazon was that they wanted me to send the offending email to them, and that is another thing. As of an hour ago I can’t get into my email account. Now this might be Orange having technical problems and no connection to these emails but I do wonder, and also whether there is a connection to the problems I had described above.
This is what I get repeatedly from Orange:
Suite à une erreur technique, l’action demandée n’a pas pu être effectuée. Veuillez réessayer.
Having difficulty now getting access to our UK bank account, it does not accept my numbers or password. Trying to report a fraud to them with difficulty too. They ask me for my debit card number, is this normal? If there is a hacking problem the last thing I want to do is give them that.
People get many phishing emails repeatedly nowadays - and more likely now you responded to one - your email address will be sold / added to lists to / from attackers.
Mind you, you got a new mail address - were these to the old one and forwarded to the new one?
on the bank login - have you tried clearing the browsing history From the last login?
Maybe also for the email login?
I only responded to the one I thought was microsoft in the the other thread. Definitely not since.
Mind you, you got a new mail address - were these to the old one and forwarded to the new one?
I don’t know because I can’t get into my email account but pretty sure they will have come from the old email address.
on the bank login - have you tried clearing the browsing history From the last login?
I haven’t, but that is because I wouldn’t know how.
Maybe also for the email login?
Same answer.
I have just spent over an hour talking mainly to so-called artificial intelligence on both the bank website and Orange. The first eventually turned into a person who told me I had written my password wrongly, this despite my pressing of the ‘show password’ button on each of 3 tries to make sure it was right. I only got in to talk to him because eventually they gave me a text code to get in.
The 2nd, Orange, never did turn into a real person, just told me they were too busy and please try later. If I am not the only one affected (locked out of emails) then I feel a bit better as it means it is not just me.
Fair enough. Sometimes the caps lock is on and so the password will be incorrect, here though you could see it. Maybe you got locked out from earlier tries.
A bit weird though with a button to see the password, can’t recall a bank which allows that, the password field is always asterixed out.
Thanks Brian, a great relief in a day without much of that. Also some good news, a very pleasant ‘chat’ with Nikita at Amazon France, in very stark contrast to Orange and Virgin Money, who confirms that the email supposed to be from them is not and indeed there has only been one purchase and payment
@larkswood12 They always ask if I want them to show the password and then ask if I want to update or not. I admit it is a bit worrying, but it does mean that I got it right each time. It is a recently changed password of course but that does not excuse it.
I’ll not bother with the spam ‘from’ PayPal, I know I have nothing to do with them.
