Have you ever considered a career in the Diplomatic Service Jan ?
Cannot fathom why anyone would think that legislative measures in the interest of persons over the age of 70 is a bad thing (whose income is less than minimum wage).
Thankfully cemetery plots have 50 years leases!!!
Doreen, please can you refrain from making such sweeping statements? You'll make SFN sound like a bunch of rabid ukippers.
Thanks
James
(Community Manager)
Sorry to say.... you're stuffed, it will take a long time to get them out and they are probably waiting for you to to "Pay them off" I would bet that their own house (if it existed at all) is probably rented out by now. As the buyer pays the fees and no sale occurred your Notaire has not been paid for all the work he's done on your behalf so unless you specifically instructed him and have paid for rental contracts he's not obliged to do anything for you as far as these unwanted tenants are concerned. Whilst there are undoubtedly some very nice honest people in France there are some who don't miss a trick when it comes to ripping off the unwary and here I was thinking it's just the Normans that "take your arm when you've only offered your finger" ( sorry Norman expression) equivalent to "Give an inch and they'll take a mile ". You will have to wait until at least March to start the process of evicting them.... Good luck
Not long ago I was ticked off by the management for criticising someone who made a nasty sweeping generalisation about french dog owners. Apparently sweeping generalisations are now 'acceptable' again.
I think you just might be digging yourself into a deeper hole here! Stereotypical observations about nationalities are always unhelpful. I once met a polite New Yorker!!!
Those not protected by the winter break are:
- Squatters
- Persons occupying a building deemed dangerous
- Persons occupying student housing while they no longer have the status
Does the winter eviction law apply if they have no young children>?
My last word on the subject is to do what I did and go through an agency. I pay 10% and for that they take care of everything A to Z and I have non-payment insurance for up to 3 years rent! (The 10% is deducted from income)
I see you've replied to Doreen Bailey; thank you... I'm French and find it SO offensive!!!
I actually sent Catharine a private message because I really don't want to get into pointless slanging match with someone like that.
It's my pleasure to help Colin :) Like you I hope that this thread helps Brian and any others as there is a lot of sound advice and unfortunate experience.
It just highlights the cultural differences and the fact that a paper trail is essential in France... it's true that if you do things by the book then the parasite tenants will see that you know what you're talking about and that you mean business. Sorry you had to go through that... must be very distressing.
"how the french love to scam foreigners" - what a very jaundiced view you have of the world. I feel sorry for you.
Steffi,
I wish my friends had this advice before seeing a huissier. In the event the first two letters from the huissier were enough to encourage the tenant to disappear in the dark of night, never to be seen again - but maybe a letter of the sort you advise would have prevented a €250 charge from the huissier and a few more months of anguish (let alone a trashed house to sort out).
I hope others considering renting properties will heed all the advice on this thread and ensure that everything is properly documented and contracts signed. It really is worth the effort.
Thanks so much. I have kept your advice for future reference should any more of my anglophone friends get caught out.
Perhaps I am an old cynic but the notaire is either in on the scam, not the first time, or has been grossly negligent and thus liable for damages and will not want to know.
The mairie will either be very embarrassed and will not want to know or just as likely the tenants are linked to him thru family and/or friendship. I know of too many circumstances where the mairie worked very hard to benefit the locals against an incomer.
By all means try them but do not assume they are on your side let alone neutral.
And yes you should check if the electricity, water, phone local taxes are in your name. And indeed has the notaire registered the "tenant" as the "owner"
In this situation trust nobody and then be careful.
And yes I am an old cynic but seen it all before.
Hello Brian, what a terrible mess.
This is the government information site on the subject, and all is based on the lease, which you do not have. http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F31272.xhtml#N10096
http://www.euro-assurance.com/actualites-assurance/bail-verbal-risq...
This link second tells you all you need to know in simple words.
From what I have been able to read on the subject, they have a verbal lease that they can prove because they have paid rent. You can send the huissiere around because they haven’t paid in months.
Also even if the verbal lease is respected, you wanting to sell is a valid reason to get them out, with six months notice.
First, send a registered letter using Steffi Garnotel’s model (this sets the date of the procedures’ opening), wait 2 weeks
During this time, contact a local “huissier” (I suggest close, but not the same town). Explain your situation precisely and ask him to confirm his costs. Then he will take over.
There is something seriously wrong with the “Notaire”. I have never heard of such a situation and frankly he/she’s taking the p...
A lawyer will tell you what to do about the notaire later. Don’t go back to him whatever happens.
If they have housing benefit for your property (which would surprise me due to the absence of a lease) you can contact the CAF and they will pay you directly.
It’s going to be a long haul and expensive too (up to 3000 euros for the Huissier if it goes to court). I’m so very sorry for you.
Maybe the Mairie can help you, but I doubt it
Let us know how it goes.
Tobias
I also had a problem with a French renter and took advice from my protection juridique which was part of my household insurance. They claimed that if I could prove that the contract had been delivered the fact that it hadn’t been signed was inconvenient but a court would accept that it did exist under I can’t remember which(maybe 117) section of the civil code. Hope this is some comfort as I feel for you after my experience. In my case the mother of the tenant was an immobilier and I think it was all a big try on. When they realised that I wasn’t a pushover they backed down.
I just wonder if the 'tenants' have actually paid the 'quittance' for the insurance ? It would probably be wise to take out house insurance in any case ?
I'm working on an answer for you, but for starters, like today, now even, get in touch with a big insurance company, like axa or Macif and take out an "assurance bailleur non occupant". I'm pretty sure the people in the house won't have taken out an "assurance habitaiton" so right now, you are very exposed to risk.
The Assurance bailleur non occupant will cost about 150€, you can pay by credit card with immediat effect.
So sorry for your predicament, but I'm not qualified to offer advice as to what to do next. How vexing. Hope someone will know.
Hello Brian,
It's going to take a bit of time and some expense, but you will get them out.
The "Habition" law of 1989 stipulates that in the case of having no contract you still go through the same procedure as you would with a contract; only difference being you need a point of reference for the delay of notice which is 6 months when you want to regain the property for your personal use of if you want to sell... So, you need to:
Contact the "mairie" and ask them what the "Usage des lieux" is (c'est à dire, quelles sont les coutumes de la commune pour le préavis de départ) what is the notice period for rentals in your particular commune, as they vary.
Once you have established that you need to send a recorded delivery letter to them... here's a template; so you just need to change the numbers of months as required.
You also need to send them a "mise en demeure" for the non-payment of the rents due:
"Objet : mise en demeure de payer les loyers en retards
Vous êtes locataire du logement sis au (indiquer l'adresse complète). A ce titre, vous avez pour obligation, définie notamment par notre contrat verbal conclu le (préciser la date), de me régler un loyer mensuel d'un montant de (x euros).
Or, je constate qu'à ce jour, et en dépit de mes relances répétées, vous êtes toujours redevable du montant de (x loyers), soit la somme totale de (y euros).
Dans ces conditions, je vous mets en demeure de payer cette somme sous (indiquer un nombre de jours).
Passé ce délai, et sans réaction de votre part, je solliciterai les services d'unhuissier de justice pour vous faire délivrer un commandement de payer qui, je le précise, sera à votre charge."
This is the paper procedure you need to follow and contact a "huissier" to follow it through as it obviously appears that they want to stay put, this is the standard thing to do to show the tribunal that you have tried the "friendly" route... then goes to the "Tribunal de Grande Instance".
So technically, at worst you are looking at a 6 months notice period taking you to November and then up to March for eviction.
You should really get the notary to help you with as many written documents available and also involve the "mairie" so that they help you too.
Hope this helps.
Bon courage,
Steffi