New to the buying process

General Discussion
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Hello, just placed offer on property in Normandy which has been accepted! So now will be the waiting game and countdown until the final deeds are signed.

So we wanted to put in a clause for Certificat d’Urbanisme (CU), has half of the building is barns and the rest is a house. So we wanted to make sure it’s possible to get the barns converted into one big house.

Is it right in telling the agent to add this in or do we have to wait for sellers to select their notaire and tell them to add it on. Last email we got from the agents was they are now drawing up the contract, I’m assuming they mean the notaire will be?

Just trying to get my head around who is doing what and in what order. As I don’t want them to turn around and say “you didn’t tell us so it’s too late to add it into the contract”.

Is it me or…
2

Tell them. Preferably a written formal instruction that your offer is conditional on this and that they should ensure is put in. If this is a deal breaker must be in the compromis de vente, which so sometimes drawn up by estate agent and sometimes by notaire.

Generally you have the same notaires as the sellers to make it easier.

You also need to discuss with estate agent about helping you start the process to get the CU operational. Here’s some guidance

You can click button top right to select language but the automatic translation is a bit rubbish, so don’t rely on it.

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Oh I see didn’t know the compromis de vente can be written by the agents also!

So once this is signed by seller and me, they cannot pull out right? So it’s legally binding even though the nortire didn’t draft it?

4

Yes immobiliers can so this. But you need to inform yourself a bit more so you are able to check that it’s done correctly. It’s usually quicker if they do it, but equally can say you wish it to be draw up by a notaire.

There is a 10 day cooling off period, sometimes you need to pay a deposit so if that doesn’t appear it can be cancelled, and if you have a clause suspensive (either planning or bank loan) then if that doesn’t happens can annul.

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5

It would be worth contacting the mairie to check that it is a possibility. In my commune the places where building and change of use are allowed has been tightened considerably.

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6

Congratulations, and welcome to the SF forum!

Jane has given excellent advice, so I will only add a bit.

I suspect that what your immobilier is drawing up for you to sign in the first instance will be the offre d’achat.

The immobiliers tend to use a template for this. Your requirement to include the Certificat d’Urbanisme clause should be included within this offer. It is best that the seller and you are both on the same page from the start.

Next, either a promesse de vente or the compromis de vente

I would highly recommend you request the compromis and have this drawn up by a Notaire. Please note the caveat outlined regarding using the immobilier for this.

Contracts for property are serious commitments in France and should be carefully considered. The Notaire is effectively being paid by you, so it would be good to have one you can trust.

May also be worth reading:

The ‘cooling off’ 10 days mentioned by Jane:

“A deposit of up to 10% of the purchase price is made on signing of the agreement (compromis de vente) and the purchaser has 10 days during which time they can withdraw from the contract without penalty.” Deposit will be held by the Notaire. (And returned directly to you if you withdraw before the 10 days lapse.)

Then you wait for the Notaire to check all that must be done and takes ~ 3 months

All being well, the acte de vente drawn up by the Notaire will be signed by both yourself and the seller, with balance of payment for the house transferred by you to the Notaire, who then divides taxes owed between you.

About 6 months after the acte de vente signing between yourself and the seller, the Notaire will send you your deed but the house will be yours from the day of the signing.

Then the real fun begins!

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Thanks very good information but I have already signed the offre d’achat which stated the price etc.

So next stage I have to make sure it’s added to the next contract so we can be sure it’s legally binding

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My local city hall is Barenton, not sure how to contact them, only a number I can see.

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Here’s the contact page from the commune website, which has an email address & contact form.

Sadly one can’t be certain that they will actually respond to an email - although I’m relatively local it’s not a commune that I have anything to do with.

There are lots of discussions about the French bureaucratic use (or not) of email elsewhere in this forum.

https://www.barenton.fr/contact/

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In the link I provided is the formulaire to request this for the specific commune.

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Did the offer include your requirements in respect of planning permissions etc? - if not the vendors can reject your request. Any conditions to be added are only by the agreement of both parties.

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Even at offre d’achat stage Mat? That is pretty non binding,

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Ah I see ok! Unfortunately not as when I was reading into adding this clause in everywhere stated to add it into the main contract nothing about the offer stage :frowning:

I will find out about my request tomorrow. As I signed the copy and sent it last night. If they reject it I should get a response by tomorrow. Fingers crossed they accept it and happy to continue to the COMPROMIS DE VENTE

14

It is non-binding but the vendors do not have to accept changes to the basis of the offer, ie conditions with respect to planning.

Theoretically there could be two offers on the table one with conditions and one without making it obvious which one to accept!

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15

They can but I would use a Notaire.

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16

Good.

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For the benefit of any newcomers reading this thread, please be aware that under French law a signed offre d’achat is in effect a contract.

Article 1583 of the civil code states that the sale ‘is perfect between the parties, and ownership is acquired by right from the buyer to the seller, as soon as the thing and the price have been agreed, even though the thing has not yet been delivered or the price paid.’

The best advice is to engage a Notaire from the very start of a property purchase. A good Notaire will check if the buyer has purchase conditions and will include these in the offre d’achat.

ensure that it states the sale is conditional on the preparation of a sale and purchase contract in which all the conditions will be elaborated

However, in practice the immobilier is often impatient to secure the sale (before offers from elsewhere are submitted). An immobilier who will not accept a brief delay for a Notaire to be engaged before the offer is signed, should ring a bell.

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18

We’ve bought both ways. Using immo for initial paperwork was us pushing, not them, as buying in busy market with some urgency to exchange or have no roof over our head.

Horses for courses.

Just be very aware you understand implications of each step.

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19

@Kmanthena4

Welcome to the forum and good luck with finding your new home here in France.

As others have said/implied… never sign anything unless you completely understand and accept what that document says.

Don’t accept Verbal assurances that "it’ll all be on the main document " or similar phrases.

No decent Agent will mind you being cautious. :+1:

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20

Hello! Late to this thread but same situation, looking around Serre Chevalier and trying to do the checks before offering rather than at the compromis.

I pulled the open data (PLU, monument perimeters, risk plan, sold prices) into a one-page check for a listing near Briançon. Two surprises: the commune bans change of destination outright in every zone (JaneJones’s point about tightening is real, and worse in some places), and the village core is inside two monument perimeters. I’ve attached because think it could be useful for others

Curious to see if I’m missing anything that others are checking?

The report:

DD for village house near Briancon (sample)

Part of a village house, about 104 m2, sold as an empty shell to fit out. Asking around EUR 150,000. All from official open data (GPU planning map, Georisques, DVF sold prices, ADEME DPE register) plus the commune’s PLU. Verdicts: CLEAR, CONSTRAINT (plan for it), RESOLVE FIRST (before any offer).

Summary. Roof and facade already redone, so the expensive risks are fixed. The project depends on one registry fact and one map: what the lot is officially registered as, and the risk-plan zone for the parcel.

1. Can it legally become a home? RESOLVE FIRST. “Not subject to DPE” and “to fit out entirely” suggest it is not registered as living space today. This commune’s PLU forbids changing a building’s official use, in every zone. If the lot is already registered as habitation, normal works permission should follow (the plan encourages converting old buildings, plus about 2 parking spaces to show). If it is registered as a barn or annexe, the plan blocks conversion and there is no project. Verify: the registered use (co-ownership deed, land registry), then the town hall in writing via a certificat d’urbanisme. Condition any offer on it.

2. Planning zone. CLEAR: zone UB. With design rules: roof windows taller than wide, solar allowed on existing roofs, traditional two-slope roofs. In the old-core zone (UA), roller shutters and verandas are banned.

3. Historic monuments. CONSTRAINT. The village core is inside the protection zones of two listed monuments. The state heritage architect (ABF) must approve new windows, roof windows or solar. Talk to the ABF before fixing the design.

4. Natural-risk plan. RESOLVE FIRST. A PPR (2009) covers the sector: flood, avalanche, rockfall, landslide, old underground quarries, earthquake, forest fire, radon. Expected: buildable with conditions (the core is zoned urban in a plan written after the PPR), but read the PPR map at the town hall or DDT before offering. Fixed rules either way: 10 m back from the torrent, 4 m from main canals.

Also flagged: radon class 3 (plan ventilation); moderate seismic zone; two closed industrial sites nearby, identified and mapped, neither on the parcel; nearby pre-1948 homes rate D to G on the DPE, so insulate properly now; 2-lot co-ownership, so the only neighbour must agree structural works; mains drainage confirmed by the PLU.

Price. Recorded sales: good-condition village homes EUR 2,300 to 3,700 per m2, unrenovated EUR 1,300 to 1,800. Finished value about EUR 285,000; fit-out EUR 125,000 to 187,000 plus contingency. The sums support a purchase of EUR 85,000 to 115,000 to live in. Renting or flipping does not work at anything near asking.