Noise Nuisance France - please advise

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1

Hello everyone,

I would really appreciate any advice you could give me with regard to the noise complainant made against me.

The source of the noise is simple: I use a treadmill, between 50 to 60 minutes every day, some time between 9AM and 7PM (often 4PM to 5PM but never after 7PM.)

The treadmill is a little squeaky (I lubricate the belt religiously) and about as loud as a washing machine - still, I don’t feel that the level of noise is either unreasonably high, long, or at unreasonable hours. I’ve had the treadmill for 3 years and used it in two different apartments in London, without any complaints (but then my neighbours were at work when I used it - you don’t mind the noise when you’re not there to hear it!)

My downstairs neighbour raised her complain with me in person at first – she has a painting studio and she said she’s only in between 10AM and 5PM. I’ve tried to be accommodating and keep the running between 5PM and 7PM (after she leaves) but now I received a letter of complaint and I’m pretty sure it’s still her (she couldn’t figure out what the noise was and I told only her that it’s the treadmill - nobody else knows I have it.)

Having Googled it, it seems that what constitutes noise is pretty broad:

“There is no clear legal definition of what constitutes statutory ‘noise nuisance’ arising from the lifestyle of neighbours.

The law merely specifies certain circumstances where noise nuisance might arise, which may be considered ‘unnecessary, uncaring or aggressive’.

Examples given in the legislation include a barking dog, loud music, DIY, domestic electrical equipment, fireworks, ventilation, or air conditioning equipment. It also includes noise complaints about the French national symbol, the cockerel!

In law, a noise is considered excessive if it is likely to disturb the peace of neighbours or their health by their ‘duration, repetition or their intensity’.

Anyone one of the above three criteria is sufficient for a potential nuisance to be caused.

The rule applies irrespective of the time of day or night. Therefore, although a neighbour may feel it reasonable to play loud music up to say 11pm in the evening, the law makes no concession as to the time at which the noise nuisance occurred.”

I don’t think my neighbour is being reasonable – I complied with her verbal request in good faith. I don’t feel the noise is excessive by ‘duration, repetition or their intensity’ but clearly she doesn’t agree. I don’t know if the police would agree with her or me if she decided to call them – it seems to be a matter of opinion?

Is there any action I can take to protect myself against any further escalation of this issue? I don’t feel that going to a gym is really a good solution – my treadmill is as loud as a washing machine/vacuuming so if they deem that ‘unnecessary, uncaring or aggressive’, then they could complain about those things, too.

Thanks in advance for your comments !

2

Out of interest is it positioned on a wood or concrete floor?

The impact of the running steps may be louder than the operation of the treadmill.

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3

Thank you for your response.

It’s linoleum, linoleum everywhere! :slight_smile: Not sure what’s under that.
The neighbour did indicate that it might be the steps (she first thought it was music - she said it’s the base that disturbed her and it seemed to travel down to her apartment. Her apartment isn’t even directly under ours - it’s downstairs and to the right. )

4

Have you thought of asking the neighbour if you could be in her appartment while you put your machine on ?

Not sure how a treadmill works, if you need to actually be ‘in situ’ , but if it’s possible for you to hear the noise it makes then maybe you may understand her concern.

I once lived in an appartment in the UK that had a downstairs and an upstairs neighbour. The downstairs one played music that really ‘travelled into my space’, the upstairs one, the lady there wore high heels and clacked across the floor at all hours.

We are not always aware of the noise that we may ourselves make.

In France there are rules and regulations in regard to noise and the effect it can have on others. Broadly the hours between midi and 2 pm are’ sacred’. This is to avoid people being outside with mowers, grass trimmers, and revving engines disturbing the peace of others during meal times.

This is the French site that applies … do please read it , above all avoid a ‘war of words’ with your neighbours there are seldom any ‘winners’ !

5

Hello Irene and welcome to the Forum.

You say you have received a letter of complaint …

Exactly who has written to you… ??? Surely the letter bears a name and address ???

More details, might help us to find you a way through the maze… :thinking:

6

Ann has made the same suggestion that I was thinking about. It’s important for you to hear the noise. It’s amazing what a small noise can sound like, if you’ve ever heard a mouse running across a plasterboard ceiling you will know that it can sound like a hippo tap dancing in clogs. The Lino might also be a problem, if you were to carpet the room where the treadmill is that might deaden the sound.

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7

Hello Stella,

The letter is signed as “Presidente du Conseil syndical”. It was attached to my front door without an envelope.
There is no return address, email or any obvious way of getting in contact (unless I google the surname of the person which seems like an unreliable method.)
I think it’s the same neighbour because the letter mentions the treadmill specifically - the neighbour herself couldn’t identify the origin of the noise from just hearing it, so I’m assuming it is her as she is the only one who knows there is a treadmill at all.

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Hello Ann, David,

Thank you for your responses. You and David are of course right - what doesn’t sound very loud to me might sound different (and very uncomfortable) downstairs.
There is no part of me that wants engage in unnecessary conflict and upset my neighbours. There is surely some solution that is a win-win.

I can’t ask my neighbour to hear how it sounds like from her apartment - somebody has to be in my apartment, using it, for it to make any meaningful noise. I’m also not sure exactly what downstairs apartment she’s in so I can’t knock on her door and just ask.
She described it as being like ‘base sound from music that travels down through the wall, like a beat’ (which is the sound of footsteps - when she knocked on my door the treadmill was working and everything else was off so it couldn’t be music). She also said that she was never in after 5PM so I assumed she would be happy if I just kept it between 5PM and 7PM which I did.

I don’t mind finding a 50 minute window when everyone can agree I can use the treadmill. It’s not a problem.
The problem is that they want me to stop using the treadmill full stop (all sports equipment, according to the letter and the treadmill specifically) - it offers no recourse, nothing. It’s just a demand. I feel like they just want to escalate the issue after I had offered and followed through on the compromise that was asked of me earlier in person (by the only lady who actually let me know she was inconvenienced by me which I’m of course glad she did - except clearly this compromise doesn’t seem to suit her anymore.)

9

Irene… Conseil Syndical will be like a management team that is responsible for your appartment block… a sort of Tenants Council…

Presumably, when you rented/bought your flat you would have been advised of their existence… ???

Seems to me you need to find out who the President is (the person who signed the letter) and have a discussion…

10

Hello again Stella,

Thanks, I didn’t know that! Our estate agent (we’re renting) either didn’t inform us about it or we didn’t understand him if he did (my husband spoke to him and his French is good but not perfect - he could have misunderstood. He definitively doesn’t know what this Conseil Syndicale is!)
We will definitely try to get in contact by asking the estate agent. Thank you for your suggestion.

11

I am guessing that you rent your flat if you are not in direct contact with your syndic and don’t know about it?

Flats in france are owned in copropriété, unlike the UK freehold/leasehold arrangement. And there should be a reglement de copropriété that sets everything out in writing, and gives details about what you are allowed to do and not to do. It should also give the name of the body who is charged with looking after the building on behalf of the owners (the syndic), and details of the the way in with the owners are involved - usually by way of an annual assembly. Tenants aren’t often invited to participate.

If your block has a concierge, ask him or her. They will know who to contact, and they will probably also know the details of the complainant. If not whoever you remted the flat from should have told you. You need to work out the status of this letter and how it relates to the reglementation.

It has been known for whoever is currently president of the owners group to take matters into their own hands and write letters of complaint on their own behalf. So it could be a storm in a teacup.

We once had a neighbour complain about our noise. It turned out that it was nothing to do with us but the flat in the adjacent block next to us and noise was travelling through pipes. If it is an old flat insulation levels and barriers may not be to modern stanrds.

12

I imagine your treadmill sounds very loud to people just underneath, when someone is running on it, like a boy racer’s car (the sort where you think the windows will pop out as it goes ummh ummh ummh).

13

Great info, thank you so much!

I feel like there’s finally something positive and helpful I can do now. :slight_smile:

Thanks to everyone who commented; I’m glad this community exists for those of us who still feel a little lost in this beautiful country!

14

Hi Irene… ask the Estate Agent for details of what is and what is not allowed to be carried out in the flats…

Is there really an interdiction of sports equipment… ??? possibly, but who knows… got to be worth checking and discussing…

hope it gets amicably sorted…

15

The first thing to do is to understand the problem - worth asking the building council if you can listen to the noise in the affected apartment, perhaps with a friend using the treadmill.

Placing the treadmill on some think rubber gym matting might help.

There are various products - perhaps something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heavy-Natural-Rubber-Interlocking-Garages/dp/B00E0LZ802 but you can get even thicker stuff designed for areas that weights are in use (in case they get dropped), up to 30mm thick which should considerably reduce sound transmission from your treadmill.

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16

Good idea, maybe I should get one for my drum kit :wink:

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