Strange Beverley, who says it is mandatory to speak French to live in France? That would mean that Basques, Occitaine people, Bretons, border area Italians speakers, the few clusters of German speakers and the Flemish speakers are all 'illegals'. I am quite certain you were joking, of course, nonetheless the attitude adopted is sometimes officiousness beyond the tolerable. Under international human rights law language is more or less avoided because it is too contentious. However, what Norman says is only in the right direction because first of all you need a prefectoral review and if that does not work, a judicial review here in France before going to the Hague if that does not decide in your favour. As a visitor you have three months in the country, more than enough time to engage a lawyer, get an injunction and thus a case started. That should get you an interim permission to stay which can last a long time if you need several instances or a relatively short period until the court verdict enables you to stay. Quite right though, you should have the right to enjoy a normal family life which an enforced separation denies, which gives you a de facto case. What is always in your defence, is that you are effectively 'victim' of a bureaucrat who has set his/her mind against you then judicial review will end that once and for all.
Unless you are an illegal or economic migrant/'refugee'. There are thousands of 'sans papiers' here in France who get by quite well - they even demonstrate on the streets if they think they can gain anything via 'Human Rights'. They also get jobs and even pay taxes in many cases.
Without being too contentious Beverley it seems to me you could/might have a case under Human Rights laws, being denied a 'normal family life'. After all I read in the UK that illegals who have committed rape and even murder can stay because of this law, and because they owned a cat!
(No offense to cat-lovers, as I have two of the hedonistic little sods myself!)
I am no expert in these matters but without aggression, it might be worth a try or advising the authorities that you feel they are in transgression of this law and that you are contemplating putting it before the Commission in The Hague.
I am sure others will put me right on this, but from where I sit, it seems a thought at least.
Speaking for myself, I didn't miss the point, I just didn't comment on it. I'm an American married to a French national, and it took me over three years to obtain a one year carte de sejour. I applied for a 10 year card, and was denied...supposedly because my French wasn't good enough. I hope that everyone in SNF Land knows that speaking French is mandatory to remain in France if you're a foreigner. For personal reasons, I'm now living in CA and my residence card expires in December. Who knows if I'll be able to return to my husband next year....! As for your situation, the gendarmes are not inclined to be too prompt...so you probably have more time than you know to follow all the good suggestions others have made.
I understand this situation. I had to reapply for my carte de sejour in July 2011. I did so and waited. My temporary ran out and I had to go to the prefecture to get another temporary. That one ran out too. I had to get another one, and then another one. It took until September 2012 to get the carte de sejour that I applied for in July 2011. When asked if I had to apply for 2012, thank goodness they told me that I didn't have to! Luckily, my job understood and just kept on taking the temporary cards. Good luck. It'll come eventually!
I think that you, Julie and Beverley are missing the point. So many people here are condemning the French bureaucracy - the French way of treating people wanting to stay here, ad infinitum. Never heard of anything like this before !! Etcetera. The fact is that this happens EVERYWHERE - not only in France or America (which is not being specifically pinpointed for complaints, btw) It happens to wannabe immigrants to Australia - Canada - New Zealand - Britain - South Africa - to name only a couple. Face it - life is hard! And getting into most countries is very, VERY difficult unless you have some vast talent or expertise or perhaps in some cases, a whole lot of money.
Hi Brian, there are many twists to the tale. If I gave you all the details, errors, and hidden agendas, I'd be typing for hours. Sometimes I wonder how a 50-year-old woman could have been so naive. However, I thought I planned well and I had a big dream. I'm not used to failing when hard work and desire can push you to success. I refuse to let this change me into being complacent and accepting the ordinary. I will regroup and continue to dream of a better life - maybe just dream smarter next time!
Another awful tale. I hope that all goes well for you. Keep strong and positive.
Amen, Julie! Some people are ready to rag on the USA at every opportunity....which has nothing to do with Donna's problem.
Donna, my jaw dropped when i read your story. I'm not surprised but, as usual I'm disappointed to see France behaving like this. Yes, Eu citizens would be hard pressed to really appreciate what it's like to try to enter France and stay there as a non-EU person. The sword of Damocles is always above you.
I'm having problems with my titre de sejour. I went to my new prefecture to start the renewal process (Chartres is positively civilised compared to the abomination that is Versailles). I received a temporary one while they processed me. So I waited and i waited and I'm still waiting and it's going to run out very shortly. Even though i have a contract until September next year with the same employer, I pay my taxes on time etc I have no certainty of being approved. Without a real TdS my employer cannot pay me. No pay=I lose my ability to live here, no money to shift back to NZ, nowhere to live and no income if i did. No TdS means I become illegal and I won't be allowed back into France and perhaps not an EU country- one can be blacklisted. I haven't been sleeping and my lack of competence in French (even though I'm making good progress) is a huge obstacle.
I asked my French boyfriend to find out what was going on so i could plan my course of action. It appears the Ministry of Immigration is going through major restructuring and it's a complete bordel, partout. The woman handling my dossier went on holiday and, of course, this being France, no other fonctionnaire is going to pick up the reins are they. So they have no idea where my TdS is or when, or if, I will get it. Boyfriend explained the pay problem. So, if it doesn't arrive in two weeks time I must go back to the Prefecture and start the process all over again, photo ids and all and I will be issued with another temporary tds for 3 months. Penible but at least I've got a reasonable chance of getting it, eventually. I've alerted the human resources department at work to ask for humane treatment regarding my salaire. This is not guaranteed as they are know to make incredible cockups and not pay me for the month of Christmas.
But I'm still here. If anything was to ever prevent me from staying here it would the the public service and I would NOT be going quietly. I don't believe they can be following their own rules- where are the foundation principles of France in this? I work with some fonctionnaires who clam up whenever I describe a situation like this. They run for cover in their cosy little privileged worlds.
Sending you warm thoughts and my earnest hopes and wishes that this horrendous situation you are living can have a happy ending. So if anyone else is having tdS problems- now you know why.
No worries! Now you know!
Well, a twist to the tale.
People we know in the next village have a vaguely comparable problem with their mayor who blocks everything they do. They took advice, which was to go to the prefecture stating the prejudice on the part of the mayor and seeking help, also adding that they preferred that to using lawyers which would involve the prefecture if they said they could or would not help. It worked.
Hi David - as you are a newbie I have edited your post. Please re-read the welcome comment you got where it clearly explains that posting commercial links other than on your page is not allowed. You are fine to mention your company and offer to help or pm the person in question. Hope that clears things up.
Kind of you Julie. I will say, if I have to go back, I will take a much more active roll in supporting legal immigration. I am saddened to hear there are so many similar stories of good, hard-working people being treated like criminals. I know there is a higher power, karma, whatever you want to call it that will ensure that good is supported in the long run. It's just hard to see there from here!
Unfortunately, my mayor wants our house. There is a very long story there. He is not on our side.
I know an American who got the same letter and they contacted their mayor who put pressure on the Prefecture and got the problem taken care of. That is they were able to stay in France. As the start-up entrepreneurs have proven today you can pressure the government and get changes made. You're on a good start here. I'd even create a facebook page, web site, petition or whatever to put pressure on the Prefecture. Why do you think there are so many strikes/demonstrations in France? Because they work.
I know you have had bucket loads of sympathy - and mine too, for what it's worth. I have been there and done that, but in the USA. We owned a lovely home in Florida, we had a business, our kids work there and our grandkids were all born there yet we too are only allowed to stay in America for 90 days. We got rid of the house and the business at fire sale prices.
I will not go into all the rigmarole of esta completions, the hard-ass attitude of the TSA guys, the Immigration people and all the rest of it. So -- welcome to the club of people trying to spend time in a pleasant place. Britain recently gave orders to Ghurka soldiers who had served in the British Army and had been there for decades. Joanne Lumley was moving & shaking things to try and get this expulsion order overturned. I have not heard if she was successful. So it is NOT just France with their bureaucracy - it happens everywhere else too.
Is your husband being allowed to stay? A horrid situation, but if your job entails a lot of travel, then maybe if you cannot appeal the decision, you can temporaily move on. Good luck with getting hubbies situation resolved, as I am sure that this is the key to having your situation sorted.
I would be very wary of renting your house out, as it adds complication to a complicated situation, and you may have trouble ejecting the people especially if you are not in the country. Plus I believe that a house has to be offered to former tenants first before it can be sold to other parties, but I may be wrong.
Hi Donna,
Sorry to hear about your situation, but as others have pointed out Brits in the USA have been treated as badly, if not worse.
Firstly, I want to confirm the RABIES vaccination issue that others have commented on. As of the 1st January 2012 a dog can travel from any country in the EU three weeks and one day after being vaccinated. This is now in line with all other EU countries. See the DEFRA website for further confirmation.
Secondly, just because a person may reside in the UK, they may not automatically get a tourist visa. The UK did not sign up to the Shengen agreement, and if you apply from the UK for a tourist visa to go to France, the french records will show you have been forced to leave France and a visa well may not be granted. I was previously married to an Indian national, and when as an academic I came from Derby to Paris for a conference, a tourist visa for my then wife was rejected. Nothing is certain where immigration is concerned.
Best of luck!
You know where to find me!
I am actually looking into specialist training courses at the moment and one of my options is French employment law.....a large part of my job is helping anglos who work or intend to work in France and this would seem a good way to enhance my relocation/facilitator services.
Don' hesitate to contact me if you need help - I can provide references and give you examples of past and present projects