Does this exist here? Son has ordered something (my Christmas present) from a scam site, silly boy. CA fraud line basically said ‘not our problem’. Surely this can’t be right? Anyone know the law?
Can you say more about where your son found the present, maybe?
Card payment eg Mastercard or Visa, or virement to an IBAN of a fraudulent seller? having a quick look round not looking too good but might make a difference.
Also is it his own account that’s been defrauded or yours
I don’t know the exact name as that would give it away apparently! However the main US site is .com and this was at the top of the list with a .fr making out it was the French official site. He didn’t notice the s they’d added.
@KarenLot card payment, MC I think and his own account.
I’m utterly shocked that there is zero protection for online purchases 
here, I’ve been blindly ordering for years. Seriously WTF I’m so mad at the French bank system, they won’t let you have a credit card which protects you and your normal card won’t either 
So MC debit type or credit type ? Eg even in UK there is only Section 75 protection on the credit type.
Really?? I thought their was more than that, maybe I’m thinking of Oz!
Moneysavingexpert is excellent UK source on this stuff bur sadly only for UK
Is it a French bank? Chargebacks do exist here. French banks are just very poor at doing them.
Code 4837 for a Mastercard fraudulent transaction.
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Sadly though, toryroo, Citizens Advice are in the UK.
Might any of this help?
These seem the best links - 2 below. 1 EU (best), 1 Fr.
It seems the only possibility is to request chargeback via Mastercard. Same as in the UK, chargeback is a voluntary system offered by card networks ie MC, Visa. Amex also has their own version.
Reading the 2 links below very carefully it looks like you’d submit the Mastercard Reason Code for fraudulent transaction type. Then it sounds like you’d have to insist that CA passes your chargeback request through to MC which it seems you can insist on. (They’d probably resist because…ummmm…CA. And because I suspect theit deal with the MC syatem means CA will get to shoulder at least part of amy refund if MC goes for it. It would be part of CA’s contract for participation in MC, that they abide by MC’s decision.)
Reading very carefully, going into writing with CA quickly and presenting it very carefully according to the info in the links, looks like there’s a chance. Also send same to MC whether or not CA says they will. I’d phone MC to find out where to send.
Looks like he has to list what efforts he’s made to contact merchant so should put something, whatever he can.
The first link, which is the EU rules that theoretically France is supposed to obey, gets interesting further down. In particular about false objections and incorrectness of banks in trying not to forward claims to the payment network (in this case Mastercard) that the bank has signed up to, so must accept the rules and decisions of. Go through this with a fine toothcomb. It gets better and better towards the end.
You never know, Mastercard may be a little more lenient at this time of year and may have put a certain amount of funds aside anticipating a surge in claims like this and he might get lucky.
The second link is the F government link. I think the EU one above has extra useful info.
https://www.economie.gouv.fr/cedef/les-fiches-pratiques/le-chargeback-ou-retrofacturation
Let us know how it turns out.
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If one has given ones number and cvv to a [scam] site and
a) if the payment has gone through, especially if one has verified it through the like of Securipass, then it is not ‘their problem’.
b) if the payment has not gone through, then the bank/card can block the payment.
However there is a voluntary fund that banks/cards contribute to that they can draw on to refund scam victims, but it is discretionary and reserved in the main for stolen card scams.
When purchasing from an unknown site, best to use Paypal who have a better tolerance to scams. If the site does not offer a Paypal option is a good sign that you should walk away.
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Being in scamsville a.t.mo, as far as I know - and my bank Credit Mutuel told me - a debit card purchase is not protected. A credit card purchase may well be. And PayPal
I paid by Credit - not debit - card for a whole house-worth of carpet/underlay/gripper-rod/delivery/fitting, at a carpret warehouse outfit in UK that was just in the biz of closing the doors.
Meanwhile they were still taking orders!
While I was doing my deal a woman burst past the heavies on the door and started yelling about the thousands of £s she’d paid IN CASH for sofas and stuff.
Sorry darlin’. Up the Khyber.
I kinda lucked out on that one. Lloyds Bank a.k.a.Visa reimbursed me. But the carpet place still had my order on the books. One day I got a call asking me to open up the storage container I’d specified for delivery. Crikey O’Riley! What I’d order was unloaded into my box!
I had to employ a bloke to fit the stuff but that was no sweat. He was cheaper than the carpet warehouse fitting charge.
Yes on the carpet warehouse (was it Harris Queensway?) you’d have been covered under the UK’s Section 75 for reimbursement on a credit card (s75 doesn’t apply to debit cards). s75 is statutory not voluntary. It makes the cardco jointly liable with the merchant. So if merchant fails cardco is legally responsible to you for the money.
Paypal, incidentally, as it is an intermediary, severs the direct relationship between merchant and consumer so stops the s75 working.
Chargeback is a voluntary scheme provided by card networks, not statutory. But still effective a lot of the time.
The EU documentation I found for Tory above didn’t distinguish credit vs debit cards so hopefully chargeback can apply to both. KirsteaStevenson also mentioned the fraud code to insert into the MC chargeback claim. I’m hopeful that a careful very precise claim will work and would be surprised if debit cards were excluded as credit cards are relatively very low takeup in France.
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Assuming that the scam took place in France, it should be reported to the Cyber-Crime unit of the Police Nationale.
Fill out the form on this link Arnaques sur internet (THESEE, Pharos ...) | Service Public
and you will be sent an email confirming all the details of your complaint.
I followed this procedure back in 2023, and then by sending a copy of my complaint to my French bank (La Banque Postale) I was able to obtain a full reimbursement of the monies misappropriated by the scammer.
Having said that, it may be the case that the level of cover provided by a French bank for such things depends on the level of card the bank has provided. The more expensive cards provide the best cover of course.
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Thanks Robert. I’ll give that a go and update
I’ve tagged you Karen coz I reckon you really know your payment systems being in the industry! ?
Can I ask a few questions (generally - not just Karen!) just to confirm my / forumites understanding on chargeback / refunds?
to confirm-
chargeback visa / Mastercard does often work for France issued cards? (And UK issued cards)
Section 75 credit card protection is only UK - no france equivalent? However will operate and protect for Uk card purchases in France. (over £100 of course).
Now, for chargeback requests for outright scams, or ‘mistakes’ - goods not delivered, not as advertised, etc
Do the card payment providers (visa, Mastercard, amex) actually not pay the merchants at the point of transaction, but maybe do a regular account settlement?
And so if there’s a disputed reversed transaction , they will / can deduct it from the next traders account statement even if they’ve paid it previously? If yes, I imagine there will be a mechanism where the trader has X days to dispute the chargeback claim otherwise the chargeback goes through automatically?
So scam sites with lots of chargeback requests might rapidly stop getting paid?
Just thoughts, offered in hope it might help with any arguments people might with their banks?
We had a similar issue of buying from a scam site using out bank visa (debit) card. We reported it to our bank and they refunded the money. I think they managed to do a chargeback which was successful which may be why we got our money back.
Crikey. Having now read all the thread it sounds incredibly difficult to get a repayment. We just gave our bank the website in question with the order details and they did the rest. It was HSBC France, now CFC.