Oooops, there goes the moral high ground…☹️

Actually John, for once I don’t agree with one of your posts.

As far as I understand the only cluster bombs Biden has approved have a far lower failure rate than earlier designs - less than 10%.

Secondly, the battlefields in which they will be used have already been mined by the Russian invaders and this was probably done indiscriminately, so areas will need to be de-mined before being re-occupied by civilians and this process should also remove any unexploded cluster bomblets.

Thirdly, as far as I understand this appears to be the most effective weapon for dislodging well-entrenched troops.

Lastly, when the survival of a nation is at stake, to me this seems a justifiable response.

PS. Ukraine’s ‘moral high ground’ surely remains intact because they are defending their country against an invader that has already used these weapons indiscriminately and indeed has a long history of usng them in previous wars.


Thanks, Mark
My knee-jerk reaction was to agree that the moral high ground had been surrendered, but your response prompted me to look at the background and the facts. As a result, I now believe that there is a moral case for deploying these weapons.


“The US sending them to Ukraine”

So this is a proxy war between America and Russia, and it’s on our territory. (ie Europe)

Highly dangerous for us - less so for the American population


Good points Mark, as always. I should have been clearer that the “moral ground” I was referring to was to was that of the US, not Ukraine. I think your argument about cluster munitions being tactically effective is probably correct, but aren’t we straying into the end justifying the means terrritory?

That is exactly what Russia would want.
Do as I say not do as I do.

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The Moral High Ground is a great place to site artillery.

On a more serious note, the Russians (would didn’t sign up to the cluster bomb ban) have been using them in Ukraine since Day 1.

The currently contested areas of Ukraine are going to be like France after WW2, but this time there will be mine plows in front of the tractors.

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This seems (Sean Bell) to explain things quite well

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