P60 translation / Overseas Accounts

(Briony Ledger) #1

Hello all,

I have just returned from my local tax office, where I went to verify I had put our local government pensions in the right box. It is the first year we have had them and I just wanted to be sure. The lady there had various issues with my return which we sorted in the main, but she has said I need to supply a justacatif in French that our government pensions are taxed in uk. I have P60s which I can translate. Has anyone else been asked for this and if so what did they provide. I have another rendezvous with her in a few weeks as she wanted to do some research on this as although she deals with foreign nationals and tax she has never dealt with uk.
Thanks for any help.

(Jane Jones) #2

As well as the P60 my pension provider sends me a payroll history from Jan to December each year (ie the french tax year) that shows gross, net and tax paid. But I was never asked for this, and it doesn’t go to the tax office. I just asked for this so I could be sure that I had the right figure for the french tax year to put on the tax form, and had proof should anyone wish to ask.

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(Briony Ledger) #3

Thanks Jane,
It had occurred to me that p60 wouldn’t show the correct amount as it runs on a different year end. I’ll try phoning them Monday and see hat they say.

(Robert Hodge) #4

Seems to me that sometimes these admin people simply make up the rules as they go along. If the lady you spoke to knew her job properly, then she would already know that Government Pensions are always taxed in the country of origin rather than in the country of residence of the recipient.
I have been declaring my Government Pension on my French tax return for 16 years, and have never been asked for any documentation of any sort. Technically speaking, the UK P60 is in an official language of the EU (English), and should therefore be accepted as it is (without translation), but often that is not a fight worth the trouble of pursuing.
If you give them a copy of the P60, together with a conversion of the figures into Euros by multiplying the figures by 1.1225 (the official conversion rate for this years tax returns), that should suffice. You could also give them a simple handwritten Attestation sur l’Honneur to the effect that the Government Pension has already been taxed in the UK as is evidenced by the P60 forms. Having your signature witnessed by the secretary at your local Mairie will also add weight to your evidence.
To counter the problem of the difference between the UK and French fiscal years, the system I use is to add one quarter of the figures from the previous year’s P60 (2017 - 2018) to three quarters of the current year’s P60 figures (2018 - 2019), and by so doing one has a justifiable figure for the calendar year of 2018. I do these simple calculations in £s, and then convert the resultant answer into Euros.
The response I always use is to ‘Drown them in Paper’ whenever officialdom gets pernicketty, and over the years I’ve found that it usually works just fine.
Good luck and keep smiling.

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(Graham Lees) #5

The annualised ECB/BdF rate for the end of December 2018 (and thus the officially accepted rate) is 1.11794 reference

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(Briony Ledger) #6

Thanks Robert,

The lady I usually deal with is always very helpful but unfortunately does not deal with income from abroad and so referred me to this lady. Her whole attitude is very different. I thought it strange as the rules are that hmrc tax government employees in the U.K. and there is no choice. She had a large volume beside her that she used to look it up and there was no discussion to be had. In fact she told me I couldn’t just do what I liked on my return there were regulations and I had to follow them! As both of our pensions started mid year I have merely gone through adding the amounts until December and then converted using the rate as suggested. My question of her was merely which box do I put this figure in. I wish I’d asked here instead and then just done it, but I had another question which needed answering and so went down there.
I’ll try the attestaion with the p60 when I go.

(Graham Lees) #7

Personally, unless there is a compelling reason not to do so, I’d just complete the return and bang it in.
We have never been asked for any justification of our Govt pensions but, of course, keep all papers safely filed away for some time in the future, if asked.

(Briony Ledger) #8

My exact thoughts yesterday however when I asked for my forms back, I still need to fill in the foreign bank accounts list, but I have that ready from last year, she refused. Apparently she needs them as her reminder of our meeting.

(Simon Armstrong) #9

Just do it all online! You obviously have internet access so in fact you’re required to by law. Stop over complicating a really simple issue :wink:

(Graham Lees) #10

There is a suggestion that having already declared them (I think you said you did that last year) unless there is any change (an additional account or an account closed, for example) there is no need to repeat the information ad infinitum.

(stella wood) #11

I think I told them 2 years in a row… then stopped… some time ago…

No-one batted an eyelid… I saw no reason to keep reporting, since nothing had changed…

(Graham Lees) #12
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(Simon Armstrong) #13

However…if you do your decs online - it’s just one click of the mouse to resubmit each account previously declared.

(stella wood) #14

Is it really… I may well have missed it… in my enthusiasm/despair/panic… or I quite possibly clicked whatever it asked… I certainly did not give them nor see… a list…

Ah well… will they come to take me away in handcuffs… I think not… :wink:

(Simon Armstrong) #15

You need to select form 3916 for completion (along with any other relevant ones) at the beginning of your declaration - if you don’t then you won’t be asked to complete it. But hey - you declare whatever you like Stella !! :wink:

(stella wood) #16

Aha… that makes sense… select a form, then complete it. :laughing::laughing:

I made a personal visit… and got personal advice… (I have friends in low places)… and subsequently did a final on-line under that expert guidance… :upside_down_face::relaxed:

Phew… just checked… no need for me to complete 3916 as there has been no change in my bank account situation… that needs to be reported… (NB I did tell the Tax Folk about every single account many years ago…)

(Ann Coe) #17

Did the same Stella.
Gave them photcopies of the accounts many years ago, nothings changed since so I just tick the box, that’s all.
No one has ever queried as I suppose they have the copies + S1 copies on their files .
See you in cell block H :hugs::rofl:

(Briony Ledger) #18

I would do Simon but I just went into check which box I need to tick as we hadn’t been receiving government pensions before. Normal lady I see didn’t know and I had to go back to see the official who deals with income from abroad. It is her that is making it complicated, not me. Now she has asked for justacatif in French for our pension and tax paid in uk, kept my papers and booked a follow up rendezvous I do not think just going online and filling it in will do the trick. She seems to think I was trying to pull a fast one telling me there were rules I had to follow I couldn’t do my own thing.Seems to me if I cancel the appointment she is not going to be too happy.

Thanks all for the advice about form 3916, which I didn’t realise you didn’t need to complete every year.

(stella wood) #19

Good luck Briony… such a shame, you seem to have come across a tartar…

Most Tax Folk I have come into contact with (for me and for others)… have been OK…

cross-fingers all will be OK on your next visit…

(Briony Ledger) #20

Thanks Stella. I have to stay she is the first French official I have come across who has been like this. I usually find them very pleasant and as helpful as possible. This one left me with the impression she thought I was trying to pull a fast one. I will get together what I can for her, in French, and see what happens.