P60 translation / Overseas Accounts

Apropos translation: as Simon has posted above, it’s not necessary for online declarations, and wasn’t needed for us when we made our first (F2F) declaration. But again, this may have been a local exception!

Like you, it is always with a great sense of achievement… that I click the final button of my Declaration… right or wrong… it’s done… phew…:relaxed:

I was simply interested to know if the Connexion Guide had mentioned the P60 translations… but obviously not… and no wonder as IMO they are not necessary… but, as you say… local Tax Offices do seem to be differing from one another… :zipper_mouth_face:

Many folk are still doing Paper Declarations… and I may go back to that myself next year… (if I’m not in jail)

It strikes me that the difference is whether you are doing your declarations by yourself, online, when there is no supporting info required at that stage, and usually never. Or, the other option, of going in to a tax office and like the OP working through the declaration with an official. In which case it seems reasonable for said official to ask to see bits of paper to understand the situation to make sure what they are advising is right. This particular official was perhaps taking this to the limit, and perhaps missing some of the basic knowledge about non-french pensions…but we are all human with our human foibles.

I agree that the rate at the end of 2018 was 1.11794, (or 1.11794298490777 to be precise), but my understanding is that one has to take the average of the year end rate as at the end of 2017 and at the end of 2018 to apply to income received during the 2018 year.

Therefore, 1.11794298490777 + 1.127141568981064 = 2.245084553888834

Which when divided by 2 gives an answer of 1.122542276944417 which is of course an excessive number of decimal places, and so in practice one would use 1.1225 for the income conversion for the year of 2018.

Happy calculating. :blush:

@Robert_Hodge But you are annualising an already annualised rate by doing that calculation.

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If you go to the tax office you are entitled to the correct advice.
I don’t suppose if you get it wrong they will just turn around and say it was just a human foible.

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Sorry to be awkward, but I think you will find that the source you quoted for your figure only gives the year end ‘Spot’ rate as at 31st Dec each year as is indicated by the note beneath the chart where the words “en fin de periode” appear. Confirmation of said ‘Spot’ rate at 31/12/18 can be found here https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-EUR#charts
Therefore it is necessary to find some way of annualising the constantly varying ‘spot’ rates, and the way that has been chosen by the powers that be is to average the sum of the spot rates at the end of the year in question and it’s preceeding year.

Of course it is also perfectly acceptable, and indeed more accurate in relation to the individuals circumstances, to use the spot rates applicable on each actual day that income was received by the declarant, and then to sum the Euro amounts together to obtain the annual income.
For someone who has a monthly pension and a well organised financial nature, making the twelve calculations is not too difficult (and can of course be automated with a suitably set up Excel spreadsheet), but for those of us with bad memories its often easier to just make the one conversion to cover the year instead of having to keep track of spot rates throughout the year.
At the end of the day, unless the amount of the £ income is very substantial, then the difference to the € total arrived at is so small as to make the change in French taxation imposed on said difference negligable.
For those who really enjoy administrative financial mathematics, one can always run both systems in tandem and then choose which is the most advantageous to use at tax reporting time. Myself, I’d rather be tending the roses. :slight_smile:

I use the annualised average rates provided by the ECB


Just enter the relevant from / to dates and your preferred conversion direction.

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Since there is no requirement to specify on your French tax return what mechanism was used to convert currency, use what you will.
Like @anon87147852 I use the ECB annualised rate. If I was converting the other way (Euro to Sterling) for UK tax purposes, I might be tempted to use the Bank of England rate but this is France, not that small insignificant island off the coast of Europe :relaxed:

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If you were converting into sterling for tax purposes, HMRC would expect you to use their own conversion rates which they publish on a regular basis (I believe they still do a monthly rate, a quarterly rate and an annual rate)

“La déclaration porte sur chacun des comptes ouverts, utilisés ou clos, au cours de l’année ou de l’exercice, par le déclarant, l’un des membres de son foyer fiscal ou une personne rattachée à son foyer.”
For the sake of the few seconds it takes to resubmit the same info, I would suggest it’s far better to do what the French fiscal code says you must. Stella’s tax office may not apply the code strictly but other tax offices may, and some certainly do. And one day a new broom may take over heading up the tax offices that currently have a more laissez faire policy, and then what.

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Ignorance of the law can never be used in your defence…

This is just to thank Anna Watson for her link to HMRC annual exchange rates, which is by far the most understandable set of tables I’ve ever seen.

For simplicity I’ve used a conversion rate of €1.13 for my 2018 declaration. If I’d used the largest or the least of the different other rates suggested, the net effect on the income tax that I will have to pay might have amounted to some €20.

Anna’s HMRC link was for UK Tax declaration purposes - you realised that @Tom?

Hummm Interesting mathematics there…

I do realise and they say €1.1334, which I didn’t use. But I like the way they present their conversion charts.

Ok great as using HMRC as a reference source for the fisc would be 'odd’:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Hi Bryony, we had a rdv with the “chef” at the tax office in Limoux & I was asked to provide an Attestation that my local Govt Pension was a Government Pension and as such , taxed in the U.K. My pension is all online so P60 is only a download copy which doesn’t have the provider’s logo on it so basically anyone could’ve written it! I rang HMRC who said they’d never been asked before and to “point them to the Local Govt Pension Scheme website” . He said my provider is one of the biggest schemes and is listed on there & that should be good enough!! So not much help there then. I then spoke to and emailed my local Govt pension provider - twice (about 3 weeks ago). I know she got my email as she confirmed it while I was on the phone ! . I even set out a suggested template of what to write . You can guess the rest. Anyhow. I found a fairly recent letter from them that had a line under the heading saying “A member of the Local Government Pension Scheme” so thought I’d take that with me . We took the completed forms in on Friday - “le chef” had said just to give them to Reception - we didn’t need a rdv. She checked them through and took the copies we’d provided of ID (passport , birth , marriage cert & copies of our récépissés for Carte de Sejour. Totally forgot to take the Local Government letter :see_no_evil:and she didn’t ask for it. I’m sure knowing France I will be asked eventually. Also forgot to ask for a receipt - as did hubby who is usually my “memory bank”. Ah well . It’s done now so will await the inevitable!

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Just dropped a clanger whilst completing our declaration today. Completed forms 2047, 3916 and 2042 RICI then finished off and signed the main form 2042K, thinking that all the information given on the previous forms would be transposed.

It wasn’t… all our UK income, from pensions and savings etc, remained on form 2047 without being transposed. For a brief while I basked in the expectation of a most welcome refund and then reality dawned… the Pound hadn’t devalued by that much during 2018! Happily correcting your declaration is easy and now our estimated tax bill is in line with last year’s.

My tax office [Tulle] accept the figure on my P60
[and they always fill in the form for me!].