Pensions in france

It’s not all about how long you’ve contributed though, it’s also about how much.
Though I’m surprised @RicePudding has contributed so much and is expecting so little back. Like I said, for a mere 10 years or so of very moderate contributions (I always got my 4 trimestres but not always with a vast margin during the first 5 years or so) I’m surprised how much I will apparently get back. But I guess it’s all relative and I never have high expectations of pension funds.

I think if your working for a company then they are paying cotisations also so you would get more. But working for yourself ,10 years is 40 points so 50 euros. I don’t know how the top up works but the amount per point is similar.

I agree with what one person said that many people moving here and earning, or declaring very little will get very little back. It’s essential to top up yr Uk contributions to 35 years.

No the top up element has me baffled as well, I assume that that is what CIPAV call “complémentaire” and it seems to bear no relation to earnings. Some years when I had low earnings netted me more complementary points than years when I had far higher earnings. I did ask them once but they couldn’t explain it themselves. But from memory I thought they were at a significantly higher rate.

The french certainly like to complicate things, explain this.

. En 2019, la valeur du point Agirc-Arrco est fixée à 1,2588 €.

That’s 63 now for retirement I think, unless you work on the metro, pompier, gendarme, put the coal in the trains,lol, and it’s 55.

I have followed this topic as 2 years ago I claimed my french pension.
Is the reference to points meaning that 1 point equals 1 trimestre?
I agree that the complimentaire does not seem to have any correlation to earning as such but it does boost what you get.
I can confirm that my 39 trimestres got me much more than you are suggesting.
On average I was paying around 3k per year cotisations so that might be the reason for the amount of pension I receive?
Thinking you should get a certain amount just because you are “in the system” is not how it works, nor should it be.
As has been already said, there will be many AE’s who signed up so they could get into the french health system and then continued to claim nothing or very little earnings. The state pension in France or UK is not a charity, you only get out what you put in.

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AGIRC-ARCCO is for employees and the values of the point appear to be different to those set for independents.
According to the letter I received from the CIPAV in August this year, the value of the point is set at 0,5672 Euros for the basic pension, and 2,63 for the complementary pension. I will have been in the system 10 years next January. I am somewhat more fortunate to have had salaried employment prior to becoming an independent, but the contrast between the two regimes (AGIRC-ARCCO and CIPAV) is stark. The fact is that the CIPAV is opaque and arbitrary in its management of its contributeurs funds, their information website next to useless, and thus it is not surprising that so many French independent workers hate it with a vengeance. It is alleged to be also very near to financial bankruptcy, cf. here, a risk made greater by the number of law suits that has either already lost, or is in the process of losing. The problems with the CIPAV seem especially acute with regard to microentrepreneurs (this is not my case), for example, here

Reading various articles in the French press this morning was not very encouraging - all were stating that independents will see an average projected increase of 13% in their pension contributions and a planned drop of the point value for their complementary regime according to the planned Macron reforms of the current government, whereas employees of the private sector will only see an increase of about 1.2%, and if you are huge earner > 230K€/yr, then a fixed 2.8% cap on all earnings above 230K - this is where I start to ask myself, is it worth continuing to be an independent ?

As I understand things some of the reforms will not come into force until 2025 and nothing will actually be decided until next year.

A couple of huge demos and civil unrest should push that even further down the line…

Now you understand why the french independents work on the black. They don’t get a pension worth anything in later life,

I’ve been told by French friends who are on a pension … that in order for the govt to provide more funds to improve conditions for the workforce… they, the pensioners, are being asked to cough-up some extra money. :thinking:

When/if that comes into force - I have no info… but they are not happy.

I think they are referring to the proposed increase in social charges on pensions.

CIPAV hit rock bottom about 8 years ago but things do seem to be getting better. Most of the articles about the CIPAV scandal are quite old now.
CIPAV do roadshows around France and I have been to two, one about 6 years ago when it was trying to rebuild confidence after having been judged not fit for purpose, and one just last year (and incidentally everyone who went got a nice goody bag with office stuff - pens, post its, carry bags etc, it’s come in very useful). Obviously these are basically PR exercises but you can talk to advisors one to one and ask questions, and you do get answers. Last time I asked a question that my advisor couldn’t answer on the spot but he promised to follow it up and he did email me with the answer a few weeks later.
Also worth noting that most MEs will likely be given the option of transferring away from CIPAV very soon, worth keeping an eye on.

So the outlook is not all roses but hopefully not as bleak as it was when CIPAV really did go rogue.