Picture hooks, etc when selling a house

Property & Home
1

We’re in the process of moving to our new house; packing up stuff, pictures and wall hangings, etc. What’s the done thing in France re ‘making good’, i. e. leaving picture hooks, or repair holes left? (I bet there’s some horror stories!) We’ve used mollies in a couple of places for mirrors, I wasn’t thinking of drilling them out and repairing.

As an aside, I’m thinking there are some pretty rogue practines out there. In our new place, the shower tap doesn’t work. I turned it on and it wouldn’t turn off (and I mean wouldn’t! ) I had to cut off the water entirely, cut the feed to the shower and block it completely. Maybe coincidence, maybe the sellers knew it was iffy. No idea. You don’t go around a house checking everything works, you take some things on trust. We were going to replace the bathroom anyway so no biggy.

2

The compromis/acte de vente may well specify that a functioning light must be left in every room, and cupboards, shelves and so on fixed to the walls should stay. (We did have the experience of arriving in new flat to find all the lighting wires cut at ceiling level). You can take things like hooks and curtain rails, but should make good.

The best is to discuss in advance and preferably have what is agreed in writing. We thought we had done that but the bastards took the bike hooks they had said they would leave.

And as for checking things I would now say that you should either turn on every tap yourself, or get a proper water control extra to the diagnostics. This place we only discovered just before the acte to vente that the shower cabin in one bedroom was not plumbed in and could never be plumbed in, despite house being advertised as 1 bath &1 shower. Agent’s response was there is “belle et bien une douche! “.

1 Like
3

I left the light bulbs and took the shades in rooms that did not have flush spots like the kitchen and a couple of fitting that I paid a lot of money for an which I now have in the new place where I asked for spots not to be fitted. Curtain poles I left behind because the new house has bigger windows and I wanted some black metal ones. As for holes left by picture hooks, I left most of them as the new owners were planning a complete renovation and they were only small fittings anyway, nothing large was ever put up. Fancy wall lights I also took down and brought with me, leaving the wires with dominoes on and taped to the walls.

1 Like
4

Oh dear, that sounds like a benefit of hindsight thing! We live and learn eh?

I’d like to offer this interesting happenstance. The estate agent was keen to reduce the notaires fees for the buyers. As people doubtless know, you pay notaires based on house purchase price, so can deduct from that price the value of any furniture items etc that are staying. This reduces notaires fees.

So the estate agent went around the property itemising things that we were not taking. For instance, the custom made banquette seating (plus dining table). Now the banquette is fixed to the wall, so one might say that the CdV suggests it’s an item that should stay anyway. Ditto fitted kitchen units, and fitted wardrobes. Darn me if they weren’t all also included on that list! The notaire has seen this list and didn’t query anything.

And equally there are cupboards, shelving units and book cases (all fixed to the wall) that we are taking. I’d be surprised if anyone, seeing these items, would think that wrong. They’re not built-in nor integral to the structure; ‘personal’ items even, furniture for all intents and purposes. I’m sure we all know the kind of thing I mean.

My point is, the CdV is a kind of ‘buck stops here’ document that in practice doesn’t kick in unless arguments arise and things go pear shaped. I’d guess most notaires would rather not have to get involved and that most folk manage, for the most part, to avoid it happening, even if a bit of give and take comes into play. I’m interested in the general consenus (based on experience or otherwise) on what is the done thing. (I don’t think selling a property with a non-functioning shower tap is btw but I’m not going to cut up rough about it, and the sellers did leave a leave a really impressive sideboard/buffet so, yes, a bit of give and take)

5

Friends suggested I do this for stamp duty in the UK. Get any fittings/fixtures taken out of the purchase price and get stamp duty reduced - I have yet to do anything.

1 Like
6

Previous house had list of things (some fixed to walls) that were taken off sale price. By the time we came to sell nearly 20 years later some of those things were no longer there, which could have affected plus value calculation had it not been our principal home.

7

My experience in this regard was somewhat strange.
The vendor left bulbs and light shades in the hall and on the landing, but took all the others, including the bulb holders. They left all the curtain rails but took most of the curtains - strangely they left one curtain, of what would have been a pair, on each of three windows. They took the worn-out linoleum from the kitchen floor.
They left two gas bottles in the sous-sol which turned out to be half-full and which I have used on my gas BBQ . In fact I’ll be using the second one (the first is now empty) tonight :fire::poultry_leg:

2 Likes
8

The rule is very clear: door handles, bulb holders and lightbulbs, window panes, doors, etc, are all part of the house, as are all things attached to the walls (so basically requiring more than a simple screwdriver to remove). This is stated in most compromis de vente.
That said, things happen very frequently. A notaire friend of mine told me that in the 1990s, so before mobile phones with cameras, he sold a lovely 17thC Norman manor near Cabourg. Parisian buyers visited once, loved it, signed a compromis with him and the sellers, and left it at that until the day of the signature finale, the Acte de vente. They visited again with the owners an hour before, as is customary, to check that everything was fine, that there had been no flooding, no fire, no demolitions etc.
So all went to the notaire’s office, signed the deed , buyers got keys, sellers got money, Notaire got tired.
The buyers proceeded to their new abode, and found that in the 2 hours that had just elapsed, all the carved doors , bronze fittings, mouldings, panels, wrought iron gate, had been removed.
They immediately phoned the notaire, who phoned the sellers, who claimed they didn’t know anything about this and denied the existence of said carvings, doors , mouldings etc.
A very sorry notaire told his buyers that the only way out was to go to court, and see what would happen.
A year later, the buyers lost the case for lack of proof, the ad had been seen in Ouest-France with a single photo of the outside, and the notaire himself had never seen the property.
This isn’t the end! The clerk had a wonderful idea: there weren’t that many 17thC manors in the region, and maybe, just maybe, one of those decoration magazines had published an article about it in the past. So they contacted all the magazines (Maison et travaux, etc) and bingo, they found out that the house had been featured in an article with accurate descriptions and many photos.
Back to court, buyer’s first claim matched exactly the description of lost architectural features, and they won the second case. It turned out the sellers had sold everything to antique dealers, and had a team ready to remove everything from the house in record time.
I don’t know what happened next, either the sale was cancelled or the sellers had to reimburse a substancial amount of money.

So whenever you visit a house, make sure you take lots and lots of photos…

5 Likes
9

Indeed. Those are the things that interest me. The law is often very clear (you can tell Kier Starmer was a lawyer!)… until it’s not.

10

For instance, the last place we bought (in the UK), when we moved in, all pictures where removed (as you’d expect) leavings marks. Not dirt nor scratches, but the paint around had faded over time leaving squares of fresh, clean paint where the pictures were! Completely to be expected but not anticipated.