Whilst visiting the Alsace from our present home in the Lot et Garonne, my French partner and I consulted an Immobilier with a view to renting an Apartment there. We viewed an apartment, liked it, and on return home commenced preparing and providing the paperwork required by the agent.
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Copies of last years Income Tax returns (Avis d’impôt établi en 2021), 2. Certificate of rent paid to present landlord over last 3 months (quittances de loyer), OK, no problem so far but the next request threw up problems;
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‘Notification of opening of the rights of the main and complementary funds or retirement or pension bulletins for the last three months’. This, my partner was able to supply after obtaining it from her l’Assurance Retraite. In my own case, however, this is something I have never heard of and suspect that my three UK pension providers (Retirement, Company and Military) would view any such request with raised eyebrows. A most likely reply would be something like, “This information is viewable on your bank statements.”
With this in mind, I provided the agent with extracts from my bank statements and here is the reply I received:
Malheureusement les extraits de situation de compte ne sont pas valables comme justificatif. L’assurance a besoin de la « notification d’ouverture des droits des caisses principales et complémentaires ou des bulletins de retraite ou de pension des 3 derniers mois » pour valider votre dossier.
No doubt members of this forum fluent in French will have no problems with that, others, like myself, not up to speed, may have difficulties I offer a translation courtesy Google Translate:
‘Unfortunately, account statements are not valid as proof. The insurance needs the “notification of opening of rights from the main and complementary funds or retirement or pension bulletins for the last 3 months” to validate your file.’
I would be most interested to know if any other members have had such an experience and, if so, grateful to hear how they handled it. I have lived in France for fourteen years and moved around quite a bit but have, so far, always used private landlords.
Given it is June, do you not have P60’s from your pensions dated in April/May? And the UK state pension you usually get a letter in March/April giving the next year’s weekly payments.
Thanks Jane, have P60s but they show the amount of pension for the previous year. They can see all this from the tax returns I have submitted to them anyway, and they also have the amounts and details from the bank statements I gave them. Apparently this is not enough even though all the information they need is on those documents. They seem to want a specific document similar to the French one my partner provided and which I’m sure does not exist in the British system. At least in my long past working life I never heard or came across it.
What they are basically asking for is proof of entitlement to pension income and the annual letters (usually sometime around April) are the nearest equivalent to the documents your partner will receive.
You wont get these in French from UK sources, of course, but they may accept at best a side document from you translated to French or may require you to have them officially translated.
Make it clear, of course, that the amounts shown are in Sterling and in your side letter show the Euro equivalent using the same value you use for your Tax submission to the Fisc so they go some way towards being matched. You may also need to explain that in the UK, the fiscal tax year is April - April whereas in France, it is January to December.
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That will not influence them! They need a piece of paper that allows them to tick off a specific item.
For my naturalisation I had to provide endless detail, but my annual letters served for pension entitlement. I don’t get UK state pension but OH get a letter every year around April stating the amount for the year going forward. And I have similar for my pensions in the form of a “advice of pay” which sets out my monthly payment for the next tax year. They were accepted - translated of course. The P60 served to show that I had rights dated within last 3 months.
Curious, does this mean the P60 was only valid / accepted for up to three months after it was dated - following which you would have to wait 9 months until the next one?
edit - yes I see the context of your post is for the OP in June. P60’s no use between July and March for [the OP’s] renting purposes?
It is a another cultural difference. So many documents in France have to have been issued with precious 3 months, a magic number. And so few in the UK!
Many thanks for your detailed reply Graham. Although the amounts on the bank statement extract show the amounts (thats what they ask for) of pensions received over the last three months they do not accept that. What they seem determined to have from me is the same type of document my partner has received from l’Assurance Retraite, headed, ‘Relevé détaillé des mensualités’. Which, as you say is unobtainable from UK sources. My feeling now is that there are other agents out there (this one is only 3 star) and other properties .
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply further Jane, It would seem that no matter what I provide, this particular agent will only accept the type of document they are demanding so we may have to go elsewhere.
You have kept the documents from UK pension providers, of course… simply present those and let them say whether they are acceptable or not or what else needs to be provided.
of course, although you may see it as nit-picking, you have to accept that the agent is doing no more than than protecting the interests of his client. In the reverse situation, you would want just as much after all.
But do be prepared for this to occur with other agents too.
It may well be that this is a requirement of the insurance company that provides insurance against upaid rent (GLI). Agencies tend to not take clients onto their books unless they are confident that the client will be accepted by the insurer.
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It would seem that you are spot on Sandcastle. In their reply to me, as you can see, the agent did say, " The insurance needs…" It is just annoying and frustrating that, although we have supplied plenty proof that we are well able to pay the rent and have been doing so where we are, they insist on one other specific piece of paper giving them this information. Thank you for your comments.
I found the French system to be far more rigid years ago - I now find it a little more flexible, especially when money is concerned. Has the immobilier actually spoken to the insurance company to explain the details of your particular situation, as I’m sure the insurance company would suggest another form of proof of income if they actually understood. Sounds like a very binary agent that hasn’t moved into the 21st Century yet!
Thanks for your input, letsmile. I very much doubt that the immobilier has approached the insurance company, at least that is the impression I get from their attitude. They have all the info they need from me albeit in a different format and they could present that but they seem to be pretty rigid in their dealings.
Have you talked to the agent and asked them if they can offer a solution to this? Presumably they would be keen for their commission so might be prepared to think more widely if you are persuasive?
The trouble is that it tends to be a landlord’s market. Most desirable rentals will have applications from a number of hopeful tenants and the agency is likely to favour the applicant with the “best” dossier.
You could aim to bypass agencies and professional landlords by looking on leboncoin and suchlike for ads by private landlords who may be more willing to be flexible. A person who has one or two properties to rent is more likely to take the trouble to take an interest and consider the circumstances of each potential tenant, than an agency employee who handles dozens and dozens of dossiers and follows the same procedure every time and a landlord whose main concern is to avoid problems.
Thank you Sandcastle, so far in my 14 years in France I have rented in a few different regions. Always via a private landlord that only ever wanted proof that we were able to afford the rent and that we had always paid the rent with the previous tenant. The agreement signed was a standard one obtainable from a newsagents (presse). This is the first time we have used an agent. Your comments are appreciated. We are as you suggest, returning to the leboncoin route.
Thanks, letsmile, interesting suggestions but the commission they have quoted is enough without me offering 50% more rent which is high compared with other similar properties, is not on. I know what you are saying however regarding being persistent but so far they seem to have a reluctance to discuss anything. As I have mentioned elsewhere, now is the time to do what we have done in the past and go down the private rental road.
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Have you been given the option of paying a full year’s rent in advance? I understand this can be accepted if the desired ‘‘proofs’’ are not available.
