Hi,
I'm selling my house and my agent tells me that I need to provide the last 3 years " proces verbal" for the property in order to put it on the market. Can anyone tell me what this is?
Can either be minutes of a meeting or a witness statement. Usually asked for if your property is owned by a company or SCI .
Hi Sarah, the procès verbal is a document which summarises the decisions made at the assemblée générale - a yearly meeting of the owners in a co-op. Decisions can be made for future works three years in advance, which is why the estate agent asks for the last three years of documents.
I don’t think this has anything to do with the DPE, - a coloured label with a letter giving an indication of the performance of the heating system and insulation of the building - which is required for the sale ad.
Thanks Doreen, nobody tells people who should know so I'll pass that on in case my OH needs to know in the future. It always seems a bit like they are moving goalposts without explain that in the game scoring goals is the objective and where the goalposts are. It seems a terrible lot of fuss and bother for people to have to provide minutes for 'meetings' of the nature described above and open to all manner of fibs.
:-D
How come you know the rules? I thought the first rule was: nobody ever is to know all of the rules, even in part!
Hi, I've checked this out with the agent and apparently, new legislation came into affect this week. You have to provide the last 3 years worth of co-op bills and meeting minutes. My house is part of a co-op. The agent says it was previously only the last 12 months info that was required. I get the impression the agent may be making this up but it doesn't sound an unreasonable request. Thanks everyone for your comments
In other words Nick, somebody throws a dice, gets a 4, looks at their checklist and sees that according to 4, this week they need to ask for the colour of the grandfather's toothbrush for the sale to go ahead. Or words to that effect (or quite the opposite, depending on the astrological prediction they read) ;-)
It sounds exactly like as someone pointed out about fonctionnaires:
The official list of documents required ever in any transaction is subject to at least one obligatory additional document and two optional documents which are to be invented by the person requesting the documents.
They may not disclose the requirement for these documements before you are due to produce them!
Exactly what my OH is saying Sarah. I think that is two falls and a knockout then!
What? I have bought and sold both freehold and share of freehold properties here and have never come across this, nor when acting for my clients
As for keeping minutes (if it is a copropriété).......we churned out the same document each year whilst downing a glass or ten
The only legal requirement is the DPE as far as I know
Makes sense! My wife used to own a flat in Tunbridge Wells with share of freehold and they only had meetings to discuss work that needed doing to the outside or the gardens. Invariably it was a wine & nibbles evening with discussion thrown in. :)
OH threw in this morning, that in the case of her client, the so-called meeting was about two minutes on the phone with half a page of 'minutes' signed by both in which the owner stated that the flat had been well maintained, etc. Boom-boom.
Nope, apparently the annual minutes from the last completed year is all the notaire needs. My OH says that copropriéte is a pain in the posterior and most agents who know the ropes walk away from them. She sold a leasehold flat last year but all was above board and the owner lives in Paris and doesn't give a toss anyway, it is simply an investment.
If it's a house then there isn't likely to be a copropriété...!? as Brian says, it sounds very much like the DPE which are required before marketing a property (but which many leave until they find a buyer!) I think Sarah needs to throw a little light on this/give a bit more info...!
That's what I was wondering re the agent Brian (happy to be wrong!) - maybe someone who's just looked at the list of everything you need if you're selling a property and can't separate freehold from copropriete?
The service-publique website gives info about the rules of copropriete but I'm not sure even if the proces verbals are needed in France in those circs, as the only website I found that said it was needed was Canadian (albeit in french!).
Why? A procès-verbal is either a statement of the facts in a legal case or verification of minutes of any kind of meeting required by law. Is there an ongoing legal procedure of some kind? You need to have a DPE, the diagnostics survey but a procès-verbal... What kind of agent do you have? I hope it is not one of the many English only speakers who has no idea about French regulations.
My wife sells houses, has done so for three years and has no idea what you mean and her French is perfect plus the number of houses she has sold recently, arranged DPEs, work with notaires and so on she would know. She says that if it is on shared land, joint ownership with somebody else or any form of co-ownership such as you being the leaseholder in a building owned by somebody else then you would be obliged to keep annual minutes of a meeting that must be held according to the laws on co-ownership. When the notaire makes up the compromis de vente you will have to produce minutes, in that case to present to him or her and that is all. Unless you are a co-owner you simply do not need them.
Good! Thought I was on the right track but you never know.... :)
That's the way it looked to me as well David.
I've had a bit of a look up Sarah. This seems to apply to copropriete, e.g apartment blocks that are jointly owned by the owners of the apartments - in which case there'd be an annual meeting with minutes.
If you own your house outright, and the land it's on isn't somehow jointly owned, I wouldn't have thought you'd need a proces verbal (because there wouldn't be one unless you were having meetings with yourself).
Did your agent tell you WHY you needed it? Obviously I'm only going off what you've said but if they're a french, experienced agent one would tend to think they know what they're talking about!