After the explosion at the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital I assumed it was an Israeli airstrike. Subsequently Israel produced “evidence” that it was a faulty Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket. Despite knowing well that Israel is a lying hound when it comes to atrocities they commit, I fell for it. The crater didn’t look like an airstrike, though the activity above the hospital, and the impact didn’t look like a "malfunctioning"rocket. However further analysis (starts at 04:40) IMO disproves the Israeli lies and I and all the Arab world believe they were responsible.
In all the continuing mayhem, this one atrocity amongst many probably won’t be revisited again, but it has caused significant unrest in many Arab States. I could prove to be an Israeli atrocity too far.
Meanwhile the fascist Israeli ambassador to the UK, Tzipi Hotovely, pointed to the bombing of Dresden in the second world war, as she insisted civilian casualties were inevitable in wars. FFS
There’s some shoddy republishing by mainstream media of things picked up elsewhere, before thoroughly checking and quite often with a separate agenda. The fog of war compounded by the immediacy of social media and propaganda by foreign actors.
Plus the footballication by the general public… If you show sympathy for the Palestinians then you’re branded an antisémite, and if you show any sympathy for Israelis then you’re condoning the occupation.
I have sympathy for both, and equally despise Hamas and the Israeli government… So I’m disliked by both sets of supporters.
Listening to an LBC caller early this morning he postulated that when it comes to Social Media and general chit chat among his immediate entourage, the general concencus is that The Palestinians are winning the war and that public opinion seems to be at least equaling that of Israel.
So you know better. So far BBC Verify, CNN (today), US, UK, French & Israeli intelligence confirm to the best of their information, studies, knowlege that blask by the hospital was NOT caused by Israel. Your persistence seems to confirm an ulterior motive to me which makes me uneasy.
“The IDF also published a map indicating the rocket had been launched several kilometers away, from a southwesterly direction, showing the trajectory towards the hospital. The map is not detailed but it indicates a rocket launch site that matches a location CNN has previously identified as a Hamas training site. Satellite imagery from this site indicates some activity in the days prior to the hospital blast but CNN cannot determine whether a rocket was launched from there…
Until an independent investigation is allowed on the ground and evidence collected from the site the prospect of determining who was behind the blast is remote.”
“It is still unclear exactly what happened. BBC Verify’s Merlyn Thomas examines the video we’ve been able to verify to unpick what we know so far.”
US, UK and Israeli intelligence is unlikely to be objective / impartial.
Ouch, I presume you aiming that at me Gordon? Frankly, I don’t rely on the conclusions any of the sources you mention have come to, and that includes Ch4. As I stated, I gave you my opinion based on my assessment of the evidence.
I looked at all the evidence I could find and as my first sentence states my opinion changed as evidence emerged. You have obviously chosen to ignore, or at least not to refute on here, the latest evidence from CH4.
Why did I change my mind and conclude it was an Israeli missile? Firstly, skilful as the IDF propaganda machine is, I can well imagine that in the two hours they had available to fabricate evidence they didn’t consider the Doppler effect which we all know clearly and undeniably indicates the direction of travel. Secondly, the supposed voice recording was undeniably manipulated. Thirdly, the Palestinians made a mistake in claiming it was an airstrike and Israel could legitimately claim it wasn’t because there was no crater evidence for same. But there was evidence of a missile strike and the direction it had come from. Fourthly, looking at the video footage of the sky above the impact zone, I don’t understand how a malfunctioning rocket could have done this damage. Had it failed and described an arc, the crater would have shrapnel on the opposite side of the crater to which it has. If it exploded in mid air I cannot see how it could have caused so much concentrated damage so far below. Finally, Netanyahu is a corrupt liar, his rightwing Government are liars and the IDF has a track record of coverups, for example when they murdered that Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh.
So…, having taken all that into account, I decided that, IMO, and on the balance of evidence that I have so far seen it was the IDF wot dun it.
As I say, I’m always open to persuasion, if you have a better explanation I’m happy to listen. The ball, as they say, is in your court.
I’m sorry you are uneasy and that you’re having a little worry about “ulterior motives”, whatever they might be. What makes me uneasy is people swallowing propaganda and misinformation hook, line and sinker.
There is a fairly clear account here with some links to reputable sources with scientific support
First, the fog of war, paired with social media, is a recipe for inaccuracy. We should all slow down and be more inclined to let the fog lift before broadcasting an unverified claim. While some may see this week’s reporting as the product of an anti-Israel bias, the truth is likely more mundane: No news outlet wants to be the last one to cover the most important story of the day.
Bellingcat is updating their report as new info comes in.
Although it is a propaganda dragon with a life of its own, wherever the munition actually came from it looks like it landed in the hospital carpark accidentally, rather than a deliberate target. With such tragic consequences.
Thanks Susannah. While the article does say, twice, the the IDF are not to be trusted, the thrust is there was “nothing to indicate” and “No Sign Gaza Hospital Blast Was ‘Israeli Strike’”. Now, if Isreal is bombing the hell out of somewhere, which they are, I think the assumption should be they are guilty until proved innocent. Which I initially thought they had done. The evidence Ch4 just highlighted is very recent, I doubt that it has been taken into account in the article you reference.
The key issue for me and the reason I put it in the thread title is that Israel says the rocket came from behind the hospital, the science says that it didn’t. So, if somebody explains why the Doppler effect analysis is wrong, explains why the Israelis doctored the recording and why the shrapnel scattered from the impact crater does does not agree with a launch from the cemetery I’ll reconsider.
Anyway, it’s probably a mute point, the Arab world will never believe they weren’t guilty. I just wanted to be sure in my own mind I wasn’t jumping to conclusions, one way ot the other.
EDIT: reading the article again (in the interest of thoroughness ) I note “it turned out it was not an Israeli airstrike as many assumed.” which I acknowledged above, that was a red herring, it was an Israeli rocket IMO.
BTW, I wouldn’t give any credence to an anonymous “French intelligence assessment”. This is all dreadfully sloppy reporting on incredibly serious stuff.
Personally I think it was a rogue/malfunctioning rocket and unburned fuel detonation as if it had been an Israeli strike there would have been massively more damage done from a shell or missile, but it has happened and arguing over the semantics of it matters not one jot.
Innocent people were yet again the victims, brutally slain through no fault of their own, being there at the wrong time wrong place because they had no where else to go, due to people who don’t care whether they live or die because they are just so bent on their own vengeful hatefull retrebution on both sides and all in the name of religion, hatefull finatics who willingly sacrifice their own people because of politics, power and religion.
Surely the greatest proof will have been the shrapnel that will have been left all around. Why hasn’t any of the media or witness footage or any of the the people on the ground exhibited the tell tale remnants that will have been left after the blast?. It’s almost as if the scene had been deliberately cleansed…
Whether we like it or no, HAMAS is a freedom fighter organistion using all the means at their disposal as did the ANC or the Algerian Freedom fighters against apartheid and colonialism. Palestinians don’t have F16 or Tanks so I will not put them on an equal footing with the occupiers. I have nothing against Jewish people but I’m against Zionist and their supporters.
Sometimes, it is the space between words that tells the story.
May not matter now. Hamas was quick to assign blame to Isreal and that is what many want to believe. Clearly, there will be no concrete proof because Israeli missile evidence would have been quickly presented were the damage caused by IDF armaments.
That not one shred of shrapnel has been found, by Hamas or other local sources, pretty much concludes that anything that was found will not be supporting the Israel-did-it agenda, so will never see light of day.