Rural Crime Rates

General Discussion
1

Evening Team SF,

Hands up, working in risk management has ruined my life.
In my planning to retire to France I’ve had to examine flood risks, landside risks, forest fire risk, drought, the collapse of the AMOC - yes, yes I see all the eyes rolling (mine too btw).

So the other risk for me, as I really do want to live without neighbours (after years in Central London you can understand) so I’m really looking at rural properties and hence RURAL CRIME has raised its head.

Statistical analysis tells me Limousin or Auvergne are the safest areas to live.
BUT given the plethora of decades, dare I say almost centuries, of experience here in living in France could I test the SF waters as to your experiences on crime, rural crime, crime on homes not occupied for 12 months annually?

2

Whether it is central London or rural France, looking at crime statistics is only ever a very rough guide.
What is better is to look at things from a thief’s point of view as to the balance of being caught versus likely benefit of breaking in to the property.
Think about the signs that there is something worth stealing inside the house. All that shiny new paintwork on windows and doors says that the owner has money as paint is darn expensive in France. The obvious satellite dish on the wall or roof says that there is probably a decent TV inside that’s worth stealing.
Then of course there is the long grass that clearly states that there is no-one in residence. Park a fairly new and expensive car on the drive when you do visit, and you are definitely a candidate for burglary during your absence.
Remember that French houses usually have shutters over the windows, so if the house can be seen from the road, and the shutters are closed all day for weeks on end, then there is clearly no-one in residence.

I can indeed understand your desire to have an isolated property, but the best defense against theft and burglary is to have neighbours, even if it is only one or two.
We had friends with an isolated house in Brittany situated in a commune with a very low crime rate, except for our friends full time residence home that was burgled 3 times in 2 years ! Why was this ? Firstly, they were English and living in France, therefore they had money in the eyes of the locals. Secondly, they had a fairly new car which was always parked on the drive and never put in the garage, so when they went off on a visit to family in the UK by car, and the car wasn’t parked on the driveway as usual, well it was obvious that they were away from home and not likely to be back for at least a week. Then of course, while they were away from home the shutters were closed all day. Cumulative signal = we are not here so help yourselves.

So the crime stats become irrelevant. What is important is the perception of benefit versus the perceived risk of detection.
If you really want an isolated property make it look like you are poor, and make it look like there is someone around. Have the grass cut regularly, but leave an old broken mower in sight. Consider having automated shutters and some automated lighting that can be seen from the road. When you are in residence always put your car in the garage / barn / round the back where it can’t be seen so that no-one can see whether you are there or not.
When you buy a couple of beers in the village bar, pay for it with some change rather than with a 20€uro note.

To be honest, whether your property becomes a burglary risk will depend much more on what can be seen from the road, and how you behave when you are in residence, than on local crime statistics.
Electronics and automation can be a help, but the best defense in your own absence is an interested neighbour.

8 Likes
3

Many thanks @Robert_Hodge all great general points around property protection and just good common sense.
My question was aimed a little more at the macro level - around trends. I’ve been reading reports/headlines that there’s been an increase generally in organised gangs targeting rural properties. I was trying to get a feel as to whether people in the field, so to speak, had experienced this or was it a type fear headline-driven that we see so often these days and in fact there are not many hard facts to support this,

4

I’m curious that a person with a background in risk assessment would find anecdotal evidence useful!

Rather than that being a criticism of your question, @PaulG , I’ll take your post as a reasonable invitation to open up the question of rural crime. It’s not anywhere near as bad as in the UK, but isolated properties will always attract “the Ungodly”. Even having someone checking up on it every so often won’t help. Good strong shutters are a must and you might explore CCTV (there are significant restrictions on its use, however, and it’s probably not a preventive).

Some people on SF have suffered a break-in (you can see who by searching posts using the appropriate terms!) but that information is hardly statistically relevant.

I have seen that sometimes French people will avoid making the outsides of their properties particularly attractive. I don’t know if that works: I doubt it, because a criminal will always go for the easiest and most isolated opportunity. Balanced against that is the fact that large conurbations will suffer a significantly higher crime rate than rural locations.

I’m surprised that you’re using central London as your benchmark! I spent time there in my youth; going back to Durham City was an enormous contrast. La France profonde would be, to Durham, as Durham was to London! If you’ve lived in an isolated house in the French countryside before, then you’ll know what you’re seeking; if not, you might well find it insufferable. I’d certainly recommend you try renting first: you may find it very cheap (because few French people want that sort of house) and a useful experience.

So, no, I can’t understand your desire to live without neighbours! But plenty of people on SF do exactly that: we are very diverse! We knew - because of holidays spent in isolated gites, in cities, in towns, in vollages - that living out in the countryside wasn’t for us. We’re on the edge of a town of 7 000 which suits us very well. It’s not at all like being without neighbours, but it’s a world away from town life in the UK!

If, however, you’re just looking for a holiday home that will be left empty for most of the year, might renting for the time you want to be there be a better idea? It would certainly be cheaper and less of a worry.

1 Like
5

When we were first looking to buy here, a friend advised us to live on the outskirts of a village, rather than the middle of nowhere, precisely because there would be neighbours. And it makes you less dependent on using a car.

In terms of holiday homes, they do seem to be more vulnerable although we didn’t have problems when ours were holiday homes. We had neighbours though.

We’re in a holiday resort now and last year there was an outbreak of crime. One newly refurbished house was emptied of all its contents over a weekend and no one noticed. Another couple - who were at home at the time - had a caravan and all the wheels from their car stolen. The other one we heard about was a couple who were held up at knife point in their home. It was a case of mistaken identity but they still lost valuables and cash and had their phones taken.

There was an out break of Verisure stickers outside people’s properties after that. I know people prefer their own solutions but we decided to go for an alarm after that.

Crime is often reported in local papers, so you could check the one/s for where you might live.

6

For more than 20 years we lived in a remote spot in UK.. with never a problem.
On the other hand, my Dad, living in a large town… huh… he was burgled so many times I suggested putting up a sign saying “don’t bother, there’s nothing left worth taking” :roll_eyes:

Not sure why OHalf fitted an alarm to our place, but he did (maybe it was a special offer :rofl:) It was so loud that it was impossible to remain in the house without ear-defenders (and even then, it was loud).

One day, neighbours half a mile away heard the row and called the police. The row meant the burglars couldn’t stay in the house long enough to do much damage (they’d chucked a chimney-pot through the patio door to gain entry and… whoooosh… the alarm triggered.)

Although not much was grabbed and taken… it made me feel nervous every time we were absent. shortly afterwards Doc advised us to move to France for health reasons and here we are… in a small village… very private (when we want to be) but not isolated… and the neighbours are equally private (when they want to be) Life is friendly and great fun.

We had intended taking our time to find something further away from civilisation but, in the event, we’ve never bothered … and no regrets.

EDIT No special security thingies here, just window shutters and doors which lock. Used to be able to leave doors unlocked (open even) here, but there have been some incidents of people entering homes then (if challenged) fobbing off the occupant with a bewildered/incoherent explanation :roll_eyes:
The Mairie advise caution and we all keep a watchful gaze. (not nosy, just caring - an important difference)

3 Likes
7

For some reason you seem to have taken issue with my post - unsure why. But for the record:
The reason for my post was not to backup anecdotal evidence which I don’t take as useful, hence the query. I haven’t lived in central London my entire life as you may have surmised - grew up in Ireland and have lived in Netherlands, Spain, North Africa and SE Asia for many years in both rural and urban centres so am well-versed with different environments and regimes - I am merely attempting to draw on experience of people here as to specifics on French rural life.
But thank you for your reply.

8

Many thanks @Stella It’s great to hear about your experience.

9

Paul, we live full time in a very rural area and our place is only accessible via a DFCI track. We too did not want to be surrounded by anything other than nature. We don’t hear cars nor planes and only ‘nature’ as it were.

We too have lived in major cities in the UK, US, Africa and in Asia - also, too in NL where I really detested the noise. (Brussels strangely loved ).

We love socialising but did not come this far to hear other people’s conversations ‘over the fence’ but I do understand well that other folk need that and to be say within spitting distance of the nearest Boulangerie and bar etc. Horses for courses.

So this move a few years ago to the Cévennes was planned. Our nearest neighbours are about 3kms away and the nearest tarmac road 4kms.

We get the occasional hiker coming passed on what was once a communal road and we gladly let a local farmer keep his sheep in or meadows from time to time.

We have zero crime here, our old farmhouse has been and is being constantly refurbished, we dont have or need posh suburban type vehicles - par contrare, we have old useful stuff covered in mud and dust and never locked. We have to have security glazing, shutters or security bars as per our insurance but invariably, the doors are not locked unless we go away.

If we are away for an extended period, we like to arrange friends to come for a free holiday.

We dress like locals and speak French too.

That’s our experience.:blush:

2 Likes
10

Many thanks @MikeyPotts great to hear your experience.

1 Like
11

I’m struggling to understand why you think that.

12

I was born and bred in central London; the toy department at John Lewis was where I went to play after school waiting for my mum to finish work. And took early retirement to move to a hamlet of 62 people in eastern France, but with enough space around the house to feel very private. And we loved being there for near on 20 years.

Crime was mostly targeted at portable agricultural equipment (including animals) rather than households. Several outlying houses were broken into for parties which trashed them - but rental properties not second homes. But personally I felt completely safe.

However we did make a conscious decision not to renovate the tatty crepi on outside of our house so it really didn’t look as if they could be anything of value inside. We used to enjoy the expressions of new gîte clients as they drew up, and then the relief when they walked through the door.

We have now moved to an isolated house at the edge of a small town. And in terms of crime/safety I’m not quite sure how I feel about it yet. As an urban creature I actually feel more confortable with people around - but just not too close!

7 Likes
13

@JaneJones many thanks for sharing your Journey and experience, much appreciated.

14

Bearing in mind the sky rocketing price of anything that’s fossil fuel, I foresee an increase in the incidence of the theft of cans of petrol for the mower stored in sheds, barns, and other outbuildings. A simple sign on the door to the effect that no fuel is stored in the building may help. (Ce bâtiment ne contient aucun carburant.)
Also there is the likelihood of the more organised theft of bulk heating oil or LPG from outside storage tanks which I advise everyone to ensure are as well locked as possible. Also, if you have neighbours, then tell them when you have just had a delivery, and when you next expect another, so that if a tanker is seen at your house in the interim, the Gendarmerie can be summoned.

Recently I have seen a chap coming to the bakery next door to us in a car with trailer attached. In the trailer is a tank of around 100 to 150 litres capacity, a petrol driven pump, and some lengths of tubing of various diameters. There is also considerable evidence of diesel spillage inside the trailer. Now I’m not saying that this man is a thief, but this vehicle combination is a definite change from the norm and it makes me wonder why ?
When there is a change in people’s habits, then there is always a reason for it.

15

@Robert_Hodge I can definitely confirm theft of heating oil from outside tanks is certainly on the rise in rural Ireland.

16

I think this is a problem that will only become worse. Heating oil is not that different to diesel apart from its colour and how it is taxed. Most older diesel vehicles will happily run on heating oil. The accelerating price of diesel is one thing, but in 4 or 5 months from now the real problem will be in obtaining diesel or heating oil at any price. There is going to be scarcity and for everyone’s benefit the diesel that is available will be prioritised towards the military, agriculture, fishermen, commercial transportation, and construction industries. For the motorist or home owner it will not be just price that becomes the problem, but rather whether it is possible to obtain any at all.

We are currently witnessing the results of jet fuel price and scarcity, and diesel / heating oil will not be far behind.

17

From my personal experience, my ex-mother-in-law’s house in a small rural town in the east of France was burgled more times than I care to mention - each time it happened she was away visiting us. The stolen stuff went from jewelry, to tools, to antique objects. The house was secured with shutters and bars inside the shutters, and the small kitchen window with thick iron bars, but that didn’t stop the thieves digging them out of their placements.

Meanwhile, we’ve lived in country houses with and without direct neighbours, and not yet been directly affected. Currently, this is the Auvergne. Statistically, 2nd homes are considered a target even here, and the Gendarmerie regularly conduct campaigns to inform the general public.

Our nearest neighbour has had stuff stolen from his garden - mostly cabling, and some tools, but they were left out in the open.

We know that there are unusual vehicles that are spotted on the lane, or casually cruising along a vantage point road above us from time to time. Our neighour and us keep an eye out for each other. We have also invested in a number of security measures, but obviously, barring mines and electric fences (which we aren’t allowed to have) we are not so naieve to think they would actually stop any determined miscreant.

1 Like
18

For those with the inclination, and a shilling or two to spend, there are motion sensor security cameras available which when activated will send an alert, and live pictures, direct to your smartphone regardless of where you may be. There are also versions with ‘see in the dark’ night vision.
Gives the opportunity to phone a neighbour, or the Gendarmerie, depending on what is seen to be taking place.

19

Cut your beginning and end off. Porridge. Sorry

I have been to à lot of houses in Italy where the outside of the house makes it look fairly uninhabitable. Then once the doors are opened it becomes palatial. I suppose that’s a sensible way to have your property in France, ie not making it look as if you’ve just won the Lotto.

1 Like
20

Anecdotal: we have been living on the in-law’s property (in a separate building for 6 years and now in our own place in the village 2 away for another 4. There has been one burglary in all that time, at the in-law’s. A 5am smash and grab as they didn’t realize I was sleeping in the house (everyone else and the car were gone) and took off the moment I called out. At that time (2015, I think), there was quite a wave of cambriolages in our area; they would hit multiple houses in a night, 1 in each village and move on.

I haven’t heard any more about this in recent years. I must assume it decreased.

I will agree that you don’t want to look like you’re loaded (no risk of that on our property!) and you don’t want to advertise the house being empty by closing shutters and the like.

I also agree that being close to neighbours (and a streetlamp) can help..