Russian neighbours

I heard that but can’t remember if it was the BBC or VGTRK. However, good to know & should anyone actually really land on the Moon it’s nice to know there will be music.

Crikey!!! Where did THIS one come from???

I know I haven’t been on SF much lately but, whoever this is, really IS Mother Russia.

Not Putin’s mother is it???

Ho hum… Nowt so queer as folk…

Trouble is though Kirstea, seems we’ve put it together here that despite Glasnost in the 1990’s, and us in Europe alongside Russia learning to live with a more peaceful bear, the USA has been provoking Russia still from early-mid 2000’s onwards.

Fine for the US presidents who want to stir up trade for their arms industry friends and secure access to territories whose resources can be plundered. But we’re the ones right next to it.

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As I think we agreed earlier Karen, there is a direct line from the US ‘experts’ and ‘consultants’ supposedly helping the Yeltsin regime (in which Putin was a pretty senior figure) manage the transition to capitalism, via the form of oligarchic economy they developed, to Putin’s authoritarianism; and, right up until this war, western - especially US - policies have helped precipitate the crisis.

No real understanding can come from seeing the world in us-and-them terms, everything-the-west-does-is-good, everything-in-the-east-is-bad - we could post thousands of photos of police treatment of protestors like @MichaelL 's above taken in western countries - and indeed far worse. Are our societies now so different from those in the 1970s that simply shot unarmed protestors dead, at Kent State university in the US, for example, or in Belfast in the UK?

I have no doubt that now Russia is a far less free society than France - although when I worked in Russia during Putin’s first 2 terms and the Medvedev term there was little noticeable difference; its descent into authoritarianism was however predictable, not on the basis of what I saw on the streets, but from the mistaken belief propagated by the western ‘experts’ that democracy and civil liberties would flow naturally from ‘free market’ ideology (rather than from strong civil society institutions, built through workplace and community and public activism, that actually oppose and balance extreme unregulated capitalism).

I would say that they are, accountability is now far higher than it was back then which is why four police officers were charged over the killing of George Floyd.

More charged because of the outcry rather then because they should have been.

But that’s kind of the point though, 50 years there wouldn’t have been the same outcry demanding accountability for their actions. The world has moved on and people will simply not accept unjustified police assaults/killings anymore.

I do think in general across the world there has been progress in fighting social injustice and oppression - thanks largely to continuing left campaigning - though obviously it has been set back in many places at times.

But it’s going too far to say that people will simply not accept unjustified police assaults anymore - such assaults are indeed still swept under the carpet, as a glance through some of the recent examples linked in the ‘Met criticised over Clapham vigil policing’ thread clearly demonstrate.

A lot depends on perspective. Western countries tend to emphasise free speech, but are prepared to let hundreds of thousands of people in poor countries die of covid to protect big business property rights (vaccines IPR); they’re alert to the dangers of state control of media in other countries, but hardly ever consider control by big business might be just as problematic.
To see the world as it really us, you have to detach yourself from all such partial, ‘national’ perspectives.


It is not that I LIKE putin… I don’t! Can we be CRYSTAL CLEAR on that point.

Other leaders in recent history I haven liked are trump, idi amin, kadafi, mao Tse tung, ad infinitum~ (Notice I have them all in lower case -this is to show disrespect)

HOWEVER, when one starts to be unkind, in conversation, to another, with a history and viewpoint different than yours. (Boum)

This is the point where You become a little more like that person you dislike.

I don’t agree with Olga’s viewpoint, but I think she has the right to express it. And WE should demonstrate civility with Tolerance and respect for her as a human being.

Otherwise what are we? Just a pack of declawed cats yeowling at each other!

Probably - the game plan is even published.

It cuts both ways though doesn’t it.

Zelensky is a Ukrainian president and it is not for you to decide who should rule Ukraine. Keep your nose in your own country.

You can’t just shut down discussion with a ukase


Should have used “end of” or “whatever” ??

I meant you in a wider sense, government and justifying invasion by ukase just doesn’t work, and nor do discussions with arbitrary unilaterally applied rules.

Maybe ‘ukase’ isn’t a term much used in English, spelt ‘oukase’ we use it quite often in French. It’s указ in the original :slightly_smiling_face:

I’m not sure many English speakers would recognise the word ukase, Vero. Not me certainly.

Sorry :pensive: I sometimes don’t realise a word (especially a loanword) we consider run of the mill in one language isn’t rotm in another.

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Don’t be sorry - you’re helping eddycate us higgerant folks. :wink:


It will surprise some that among my friends in the UK is a Russian Orthodox priest - who has just sent me this post that I think might be of interest to some here…

Going by the article below the UK would need 12-13 tankers a year to keep going with gas, though demand and tanker size would obviously come into it.

“The two tankers contain enough liquid gas to supply the UK for up to 12 days”

Ukraine sanctions: UK dockers refuse tanker of Russian gas

Six weeks on, would you care to comment on Putin’s actions now?
He seems to have managed to turn Russia into one one of the most reviled nations in the world, ruined its economy & spit the nation.
At no time during this war has any Western nation even hinted at invading Russia to plunder its natural resources.
I am only pleased that not all Russians share Putin’s (& your) paranoia about NATO & its aims although frankly I do object that someone with your views can write such nonsence while enjoying the security of the west that you are so scathing about.
Nothing personal.

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