Sorry, I’m back again, firstly the good news I’ve signed my French contract with my employer to start June 1st, Fragomen are optimizing the immigration operation for myself and my wife. KPMG are going to review tax implications.
The plan currently is I start in France as a tax payer on June 1st and my wife will follow on in a couple of months time after titivating and putting our UK house on the market.
So the question is, will I have a chunk of tax to pay on the sale of my UK house?
As always thanks in advance for any guidance/advice, I must admit the stress levels are starting to increase.
It will possibly depend on how long it takes to sell the UK property… and…
Will you be using the UK House money for a property in France???
I am not an expert on this topic but my understanding is that there is no UK CGT to pay on the sale of your “primary residence” - so unless you buy somewhere in France before you sell your UK house, and make the French house your “primary residence” before you sell the UK house, then there will be no UK CGT to pay.
To avoid all doubt it may be best to rent in France for a bit until you have sold your UK property, even if you can afford to buy in France before the UK sale goes through.
If you are planning to use the proceeds from the sale of the UK house to fund the French purchase, you’re only going to have one “primary residence” at a time and so the question should not arise - your UK house will not be a “second home” at any point.
(ETA: from the above link it looks like you get tax relief for the last 9 months before you sell your UK house even if you become resident abroad, so that’s another indication that the Inland Revenge will not be sucking your blood. But you do have to tell them when you’ve sold it!
ISTR that the OP already has a property/holiday home in France.
Ok - didn’t know that.
Reading this web page:
In that case it would seem that the question of CGT arises if they sell their UK house after making the French one their primary residence.
But, it also says that there is some relief from CGT if the UK house was previously their primary residence;
a) during the the 9 months prior to it being sold;
b) CGT is only payable on profits made since 5th April 2015;
c) you don’t pay any CGT for any tax years in which you, your spouse or civil partner spent at least 90 days in your UK home.
So assuming they mostly lived in the UK house since 2015, then they should get full relief from CGT.
That’s how I read the advice anyway. But maybe someone here’s been through this exact process?
No, the house sale money is for retirement slush fund, we’ve had the French house for 10 years now. And yes the UK house has always been our full time address.
Sounds like you should be OK then.
I’m happy with the UK CGT comments above. To reiterate, the property really does need to be sold within 9 months of moving out to be completely in the clear from the UK side.
Don’t forget that if you’re a French resident when the property is sold, you also need to think about the French tax consequences. You won’t be living in the house as your main residence when it’s sold, so bar what I’m going on to say, you could establish a possible gain for French tax .Luckily for you, there is a very helpful statement from the Impôts dealing with Brits selling their former UK main residence when French resident. Look at FAQ 4 in this attachment. Basically it says that provided you don’t let the house after moving out, and don’t let members of your family live in it free before sale, and it’s sold within a year, France won’t tax you. Some of the details I’ve mentioned above come from the detailed guidance referred to at the end of the FAQ, in a separate guide.
I’m glad you’re taking advice from KPMG - this is a very sensible move and no doubt they can give you more details/tax advice on what is discussed here, eg the tax impact of your wife living in the house after you’ve gone etc. Actually I’m now wondering why you’re asking us about CGT etc - KPMG are being paid to give you this advice, and should do so!
Thanks guys, well I’ve just had an hour Teams with a KPMG consultant and I’ve decided to remain in UK, only joking but seriously the only good news was no CGT on my UK house sale.
But everything else in my UK savings portfolio is up for taxation by the French authorities it would seem Anybody got any suggestions on how to reduce the amount of French tax paid on UK savings
Even tax exempt UK ISA’s will be subject to French tax according to Mr KPMG Consultant
For the first year my French salary will be taxed at a higher than normal rate due to me having no French records but any overpayment will be returned to me in September 2026 apparently.
If your marginal tax rate in France is going to be greater than 11%, you’d be well advised to opt for the PFU (flat tax) of 30% for your savings income.
That covers both tax and prélèvements sociaux.
Otherwise you’ll find your income from savings is taxed at your marginal rate and on top of that you’ll also pay prélèvements sociaux (at 17.2%).
In theory the online French tax return does the calculation for you and - where applicable- suggests the more favourable option (for the taxpayer).
I think your first tax return will be done on paper, though, so remember to tick the box if you wish to opt for the PFU.
I think the box to tick is 2 OP.
In passing, you may know this already, make friends with your local tax office when you arrive. They can be very helpful and are much less scary than UK tax officials.
Faced with this scenario, we sold 100% of our portfolio of ISAs just before becoming French resident, ensuring no tax either in the UK or France. We then started with a ‘clean slate’ of savings in France, investing in PEA (a ‘wrapper’ to hold European, mostly French shares in a tax favourable manner) and Assurance Vie (another wrapper to hold units that mirror various market movements in a tax efficient manner).
I would,if I was winding the clock back, now consult a financial investment specialist for advice on how best to structure my savings. Dave Lawson, for example, an independent financial consultant, who is on SF would be an admirable person to consult with…
I’m told KPMG will do my first tax return next year.
Looks like I’ll have to cash in my stocks and shares ISA’s and Cash ISA’s then, also my Aviva Investment Portfolio.
And on top of that there’s the UK house sale money to consider when that comes through. It looks like my UK financial advisor is going to be out of their depth here to advise, although I’ll see if they have any knowledge.
I think the only UK savings I may keep with be our beloved Premium Bonds.
You might want to think long and hard about that…
Google: Although gambling winnings are tax-free in France, this does not apply to premium bond prizes since the investment is not at stake. Any winnings are treated as investment income and taxed at the flat rate of 30% (including social charges), reduced to 20.3% if you have Form S1.
You could do worse than speak to @Dave_Lawson
Happy to help! But if you’re not sure if you’ll return to the UK or not it might be sensible to keep the ISAs as you can only put back in 20k a year when you go back. If you sell all the assets inside the ISA and purchase accumulation funds and leave them to grow your start date for CGT in France will be this purchase value… just look up bed and breakfast investments it’s this principle. Then if you do want to bring the funds into France later you can but any gains on disposal will be subject to French CGT. 30% made up of social charge and tax. Unless you are in an impatriate regime with work you get 50% reduction. You can keep what you have but the accounts are just treated as though they were a brokerage accounts and each asset is viewed individually for its gain and loss on disposal. You will just need to declare the existence of these accounts on your tax return 3916 form stating you have capitalization contracts overseas. Only when you make a gain you declare this separately on 2047 form income from overseas.
Thanks for the feedback, tax return 3916, form 2047 Wow they say moving house is stressful but throw in the ‘what to do with your savings’ certainly maxes out the stress levels.
Worst case I leave things as they are until I’m clear about the best way forward but accept I must pay 30% of the annual interest accrued in French taxes on all my savings ISA’s, Premium Bonds, savings accounts etc etc ?
Any gains you make in France on movable assets (everything except property) from the UK under the double taxation agreement are taxable under French rules.
So things like ISA’s and premium bonds are tax efficient savings methods in the uk but aren’t recognized in France.
You can either leave it and pay CGT on any gains made or sell the lot and restructure into French tax efficient savings methods. PEA… Assurance Vie and the like.
Crystal clear Dave, thanks. Ill probably start with being willing to pay the CGT as I have enough to contend with during the move period and UK house sale.