Just to expand on points 7&8 BTW - Bangladesh is clear that in cases like hers the citizenship is explicitly dormant until the application is made. It is not simply a question of ordering a passport.
Sheās still a terrorist ā¦
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Thatās, as I said, disputed - in terms of actual active terrorist acts rather than simply lying on her back for the benefit of ISIS.
She was a naive 15 year old who had been coaxed into a romanticised view of the jihadist struggle.
There are claims she enthusiastically took to her role - fair enough.
Look up Stockholm syndrome.
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This is a very thin response to Billyās thoughtful posts Peter.
(I imagine you at this point in the discussion sticking your fingers in your ears and loudly chanting āLa, la, laā¦ā)
Even if she was a terrorist (which as Billy says is doubtful), havenāt you learnt the terrible, but wonderful fact of life: that people change ?
She also married a Dutch citizen so she could go there.
WE have but I donāt think ISIS have.
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I donāt think there is any question that when she was younger she made bad decisions, broke the law, supported terrorism and acted in a way that cannot be tolerated.
The unknown factor is, whether she, at 21, also genuinely feels that the person she was at 15, 16, 17, acted in an unacceptable way. People do change as they get older, they grow up emotionally and intellectually and they regret things that their younger selves did. They canāt undo what they did but they may want to make amends. Should these people be given a second chance? thatās the first question. And the second question is, is Begum one of these people?
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In all the arguments concerning this woman one fact stands out. She has been deprived of facing her accusers in open court and of publicly examining the evidence against her.
If the UK continues in its use of secret courts and administrative justice it will join the ranks of some very unsavory places.
Remember, āWhat they do to her they would like to do to you.ā
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The catch being that she was underage at the time so the Dutch donāt recognise the marriage.
Besides, he is a much more culpable figure than she was - a late convert he went to join ISIS with eyes fully open. Also I believe he is in prison so not able to move back to the Netherlands and then get her to join him.
To me it is pointless arguing the ins and outs of what happened. This is where we are now, her saying
I know there are some people, no matter what I say or what I do, they will not believe that I have changed, believe that I want to help,
But for those who have even a drop of mercy and compassion and empathy in their hearts, I tell you from the bottom of my heart that I regret every, every decision Iāve made since I stepped into Syria and I will live with it for the rest of my life.
No one can hate me more than I hate myself for what Iāve done and all I can say is āIām sorryā and just give me a second chance.
Either the UK decides to draw a line under it and give her a second chance, or it doesnāt. Part of that decision has to be assessing how genuine her repentance is and what risk she might pose in the future. I expect that it wonāt. For me, that would be the right decision if they have reasonable cause to think her change of heart is not genuine. It would not be the right decision if they havenāt carefully considered that because they are only interested in punishing her. As a Christian country the UK should recognise repentance, forgiveness and redemption.
Indeed
I very much doubt that it will because:
a) Patel
b) the base to which Patel plays
c) Even outside that base many will have reasonable concerns about her sincerity.
To be honest her head is probably so completely messed up itās hard to know what her motivation is at present - beyond, presumably, wanting to get out of Syria.
Donāt make me laugh.
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A Reuters article Feb 2019
āBegum, who gave birth to a son at the weekend, prompted a public backlash in Britain by appearing unrepentant about seeing severed heads and even claiming the 2017 Manchester suicide attack - that killed 22 people - was justifiedā
People with that view in 2019 donāt become angels, perhaps she wants to come home but no one can be sure she is not a threat. She made her bed, let her lie in it.
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Please, look up Stockholm syndrome, do some research into how seriously a group like ISIS could mess with someoneās head.
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I donāt really care how much they could have screwed her head up, sheās a threat and needs to be dealt with as such. I canāt imagine France putting up with any of her pleading to come home.
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I see, thanks for being honest; no point discussing it then really.
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To err is human ; to forgive is divine.
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Itās people believing in Sky Pixies and beheading those who donāt thatās got the human race into this mess.
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True, though itās not only a question of beheading those that donāt - itās beheading those who donāt believe in the same Sky Pixies as you do.
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Or not believing in any form of Sky Pixies at all.
What is so ridiculously frustrating and tragic is the millions of people who have been killed because they feel their version of Sky Pixies is not only different but better to all other Sky Pixies or that everybody elseās Sky Pixies donāt even exist.
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But Mat - Sky Pixies really donāt exist!
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