Dare one point out that the elephant in the room with this petition seems to be that even before Brexit Brits did not technically have the right to visit another EU country for 6 months consecutive. FoM rules and French law give EU citizens the right to spend up to 3 months in France as visitors.
Are you sure this is correct…I thought there is no restriction on staying as long as one lies in fellow member State, this is whole point of FOM.
That is the problem in a nutshell. Many Brits thought that freedom of movement was unconditional.
If you read the FoM directive, or the French website, the rules are quite clear.
It is a fact of FoM that individual EU countries can, having acknowledged that an EU citizen is permitted to be on their territory, set conditions particular to that country.
As an EU citizen, after 90 days you can’t be thrown out of Spain, for example, but you are not entitled to any of the benefits of a registered resident, such as access to the Health Service.
If you read the other set of rules to the one posted by Geoffrey Sains [90 days-] ie 90 days+, the terms are much the same except that there are conditions to be met, depending on your civil status - student/retired etc. They are the familiar ones of a health policy, sufficient resources [903,20€ + p.m. if over 65 and single]
Freedom of movement to most Brits meant uncontrolled incoming of people from outside of the EU - and apparently did not offer the ability to us to travel widely throughout the EU for prolonged periods.
UK never attempted to enforce the restrictions it was able to.
If only this was explained is words of no more than 1 syllable at the time we wouldn’t be in this bloody mess.
Most of the points raised have it seems been answered, but perhaps I should answer John’s questions.
As a former PR professional (well researched!), I have, indeed, been chafing at the bit for most of the past four years over this. However, I was informed that no negotiations with individual countries over visa-free travel could take place until the Transition Period was over.
So, up until recently such effort that has been put in (which I agree wasn’t enough) was directed at the UK negotiating team, who were allegedly ‘including the issue in the negotiations’. Which we now discover they weren’t.
I make no apologies for fighting for a level playing field in terms of six months visa-free travel for tourism. Being restricted to 90/180 will affect not just retired boaters like me, but future generations of British residents in the EU and their families; students on gap years; retired caravanners and motor home owners and many others. Indeed, any Brit who travels frequently into any of the EU countries.
The visa application is actually not that straightforward: it involves lots of documentation; a personal interview; requires health insurance (not always easy for older people with health conditions) and - of course - a fee. This process has to be repeated every year for every family member or crew member travelling.
Whereas a French tourist visiting Britain need only carry a passport and EHIC card (even the latter is not required to be presented at border control).
Where’s the fairness in that?
You need to check out the Irish Grannie option Gordon 
as have a few pals of mine.
Even Leave.eu is now based in Ireland (in the name of some poor Wexford businessman who denies all knowledge) and of course Wooster-Mogg’s hedge funds have been there for quite a while now. A whole load of supposedly hardline Brexiteers are now suddenly plastic paddies, why shouldn’t remainers pursue the same options?
I think you’ve been misinformed Gordon.
So true Mat. ‘Freedom of movement’ was always a bit of a misnomer - and was indeed originally called (more accurately I think) ‘freedom to work’ in other EU countries.
How many brexiter posts did I see during the referendum campaign and its aftermath saying that freedom of movement imposed burdens on the NHS, benefits systems, etc - when in fact the right only existed on condition that people were self-supporting in terms of income, health insurance, etc…
The fault (as in almost all areas of the European debate) actually lay more with the UK government’s failure to implement the rules properly, rather than with the EU.
How often is it now going to come to light that it was actually the EUs fault after all!
Well it won’t, because obviously British residents in the EU are not limited to how long they can spend in Schengen.
Brits residing in the UK are covered by the Withdrawal Agreement and retain most of the FoM rights of EU citizens, including the right to spend up to 90 days consecutive as a visitor in any other EU country at any time.
For years the UK has shouted from the rooftops that it wants to end freedom of movement at all costs, it was one of the big factors in Brexit. And now you are now petitioning France to reinstate FoM and enhance it.
As tends to be the case, fairness seems to mean cherry picking where the EU must level down to the UK and where the UK must be allowed to keep its own measures in place. Or would you for example also like France to match the UK’s prohibitively high income requirements for immigrants, which would make it virtually impossible for UK retirees to move to France in the future?
But as I said, good luck with the petition, anything that improves Johnson’s wafer thin deal can only be a good thing.
I actually think there is a reasonable chance that France and the UK might make some such arrangement, regardless of petitions, and I am very much hoping it will cover working holidays as well as non working holidays.
I remember over many years of travel constantly seeing an ad in inflight magazines for a guy selling his course on negotiating - his tag line was “you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.”
The reality of the UKs position in Brexit was that (despite the multitude of lies told by politicians who’ve never worked in the real world) the EU always held all the high cards, and was negotiating from a position of strength. Especially once they demonstrated that they would not be divided against one another.
Anyone with any business experience knows that this leaves the UK needing to make concessions and accept the EU’s conditions if it wants access to the world’s most valuable single market. The idea of level playing fields, equivalent conditions, or any other form of post-Brexit reciprocity in any context is therefore ludicrous, because it’s not a negotiation between equal economic powers, and the weaker one will always have to accept an “unfair” deal.
In this sense, Brexit truly has made the UK a ‘vassal state’ (to use the term used by the Dear Leader).
I saw a comment I think made by Craig Oliver, Cameron’s PR guy (got a gong) who said when asked why Cameron didn’t make the benefits of EU membership the cornerstone of Remain…“after 25 years of virtually all the Uk press media railing against EU membership and why it is so bad what chance would we have had…it would have been an even a bigger rejection”.
We all know that over the years the supporters of membership were out manoeuvred and out played by much of the press. Bad and leaderless PR!!
Any talk of FOM , single market, customs Union will be torpedoed by the same media before it is even launched, re Starmer on Marr prog’ this morning. V sad and erroneous but better we understand it.
I understand that as a British Passport holder I will only be allowed to spend 90 days in any other Schengen country other than that in which I am resident without having to obtain a visa.
4.6 years of State Pension at say £150 a week losing 12% through average exchange rate fall since June 2016 = £4300 lost per retiree.
I read this morning that UK business leaders want the UK to start renegotiating the deal because it’s not working for them. They don’t like the proof of origin rules, they don’t like having to fill in paperwork.
It is baffling to me why they assume EU have any appetite to re-open negotiations. It seems yet again the UK either did not know what it was signing, or more likely, it knew it was signing a deal that was bad for UK business but did not care. The EU surely knew full well what problems British businesses would face under the terms of the deal. How many times did Barnier and other EU spokespeople try to explain to UK businesses that even with the proposed deal Brexit would change things? But at the same time Johnson was telling them it wouldn’t. They believed Johnson because he was saying what they wanted to hear.
Yes Sue. Over a million over-65s have died in UK since June 2016.
I imagine the majority of Brits who have moved to the EU have taken the trouble to find out what freedom of movement actually ùeans. I should probably have said “Many Brits who have never lived anywhere except the UK etc”. I suppose yet another example of travel opening the mind because mixing with other nationalities and being exposed to different viewpoints help you become less insular.
Yes - this is something that will change the political landscape we see now in the UK - or rather England - and I think eventually disprove the view that re-joining the single market and customs union - if not the EU - is off the cards for a long time. The majority in favour of EU membership is huge among under 25s (about 75% in favour) - you have to go right up to over-75s to find similar percentages against it.
They are growing more every year… I am often surprised by vox pop interviews of people who I regard as “young” expressing views that I would normally consider to be only held by grumpy old men and women…
Ah, the vox pop producers go out of their way to find such people - no point in having predictable interviews. 