SPANC can't find the Filiere de traitment for the Fosse Toutes Eaux

Hello everybody

We are in the process of negotiating to buy a house in the Dordogne. The SPANC report says
" La filière de traitement est inconnue." Meaning they can’t see the filter. (“Comments on the treatment: Lack of evidence during the check to justify the presence of a treatment device and to provide information on its nature, size and exact location.”)

The SPANC report recommends (somewhat ominously):
"Work to be done- Rehabilitate the treatment system for all of the building’s wastewater.

The question is… is this a big deal or not?

Any comment gratefully recieved. Stay safe.

Short answer is ‘possibly’.

It could be a simple case of tracing the pipework from the fosse to the filter bed or more serious (and expensive) putting in a new filter bed.

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Did it ever have one?
When was the fosse installed and is it otherwise compliant?
I would work on the basis that the whole system is suspect requiring replacement and adjust your offer accordingly - or walk away…
A new system dependents on the size of the house is in the ball park 15k€ or more.

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Hi Noel

They can’t report on what they cannot find… and they can’t find where the pipes go… and what they go to… if anything…
they will be able to approximate the age of the fosse and thus have an inkling of what might not be there…

quite rightly they suggest redoing the entire system.

It is obviously quite old, since they do not have it on their records… and, as a rule, older stuff did what it did and would not meet today’s standards (or even yesterday’s… )

Get a couple of quotes in case you have specific problems which might make the bill over the top… other than that allow 15k as a reasonable sum, as Graham suggests…

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I’m dealing with a similar-ish situation at present. We know where our filter bed is but the fosses (there are 2) are hidden. We had an uncritical SPANC report when we bought the house, but 8 years later have just had a routine inspection - the (very nice) inspector thought the water level in the bed was a bit high, and wanted to see the fosses. I started digging where both he and the plan d’eau said the fosses were, only to find… nothing. So I’m now as Timothy suggested having to trace the pipework back. Apparently, it’s not at all uncommon for the plan d’eau to be completely inaccurate - and indeed for nobody to know exactly where a fosse is (without a lot of digging).

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Waste water goes from the house to the septic tank, where the solids sink to the bottom.
Water flows over a weir and through a filter inside the tank and out to another pipe into a drainage field consisting of perforated pipes. Either end of the drainage field, there should be inspection chambers.
In the UK, they use airtight covers (so called) and are usually found at the surface.
In France they often use concrete covers that are not airtight, so unpleasant odours can escape. For this reason, they are often covered in soil and can be hard to locate if the position is not marked.
Because they were unable to find those inspection chambers, SPANC would not have been able to ascertain whether the drainage field was working as it should.
If the vendor is unable to tell you where the inspection chambers are, you should assume that the drainage field is faulty or non existent and demand a reduction in price to reflect that. Costs vary according to local conditions.
Bonne chance!

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But don’t assume that ‘minimum 5 metres’ from the fosse to the filter bed is always a nice straight line!

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Indeed, mine makes a 90° turn, but as there is an inspection chamber it is possible to see where the outlet is.

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They aren’t talking about any filters - it’s unknown where the pipework comes from/goes to. If it says non conforme at the end of the report, chances are you will need a new fosse (one that takes grey water too).

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Hi Noel

As Stella and others have said - basically, you are incorrectly translating what the SPANC report says. It might help if you posted the French version. ‘Filière’ is nothing to do with filters. Basically that sentence means ‘Any form of sewage treatment is unknown’ - as in ‘we have not been able to locate and identify anything’
There may, in fact, be nothing more than an ancient cesspit - these still exist in Dordogne!
The responsibility lies with the seller, not you. They want to sell the house, and have to be honest about the drainage facility. If you want to buy the house you can either a] require them to obtain a specific report from a local specialist; or b] if they won’t, you will need to set this in motion yourself.
Once you know the facts, you can cost the necessary remedy. This then gets deducted from what you pay for the property, in my book.
SPANC are experts, so this looks serious to me - if they can’t find anything, you will need to install a full system. Cost - minimum €10,000, probably €15,000 or more, depending on the actual situation.

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Hi Noel, the answer is yes. Get the vendor to fix the fosse or get three quotes to do so and reduce your bid by the most expensive. Simples.

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And then again it might not, why take the risk?

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Didn’t think I was suggesting the OP did John but thanks for the advice.

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Hi Michael. Thank you for your advice. Here are the relevant bits of the SPANC report. Perhaps I have misinterpreted.

Hi Noel

Seems there is something in place… but it cannot be fully inspected which is why they call it unknown… (inconnue)

It does not conform and therefore the Buyer will have 12 months to get it put right…

Depending on what is found on investigation by the contractor… it might need to be completely changed or merely amended (which can, in itself, entail quite a lot of work).

I am surprised that the Seller does not have any information on the system… if it does have the prefiltre etc it is “quite modern”

If the existing had been put in by an Expert… there would surely be the bill outlining the work done… some sort of history which could be useful.

However, quite often Owners “fidget” with existing systems… and it is only when inspection is forced upon them that discrepancies/hiccups occur… (not that I am saying this is what has happened with the property you are considering).

However, the onus is on the Buyer to provide information/reports… and this Report is quite clear…

and therefore a good sum should be allowed for in the Negotations between Buyer and Seller.

as we have suggested, use the figure of 15k (and maybe more) if you really intend to proceed.

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In my experience, SPANC don’t go prospecting for hidden inspection covers. They expect the property owners to expose the covers so they can make their inspection. They are professionals, not navvies!
The pouzzolane is a filter material in the outlet from the fosse septique that is intended to prevent solids from entering the drainage field. The fact that they mention that tends to suggest that they have found a relatively modern septic tank, but were unable to find the inspection chambers for the drainage field.
But this is only speculation, because I am not there and can’t take a look.
Does the vendor have an invoice showing when the fosse septique was last emptied?

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Thanks for the info, Noel - what it all amounts to is a standardised report from SPANC. Nothing is specific to the fosse septique at this property, because basically they were unable to locate it.
You will have noted the final sentence, which tells you that as the purchaser you have a year’s grace from the date of signing the ‘Acte de Vente’ (ie. what in UK is known as ‘completion’ of the sale).
I think you can certainly assume from this that you have a major cost attached to this purchase. But the good news is that you will end up with a fully conforming system, which probably the majority of houses in Dordogne do not have (because they have consistently pushed up the spec required - mine certainly doesn’t fully comply). This cost must be offset within the agreed purchase price, as I said before . . . but you will have the hassle of organising the work; and living with the disruption when the digger moves in!
Bon chance!

Michael

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I’ve always wondered, what does OP stand for Tim?

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OP = Original Poster (in this case me! Smiles). Thank you everyone for all your advice and comments. We now have an outline plan to proceed. Thanks again.

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Ah! Thanks for that OP :slightly_smiling_face:

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