Stay European, do you think they have a chance?

Bob has a place in Rayol-Canadel near a pal of mine. They went to the same school, though Bob was one or two years ahead of him. He’s a very approachable bloke. Some years ago he got married there and the day after was in a little beachside restaurant we frequent a lot (which he’d used for the reception the day before). I sent him across a bottle of (nice) wine and resumed chatting to my pals. One of whom said “John, Bob’s trying to catch your attention”… to wave thanks for the wine. I graciously waved back :joy:

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To renegotiate, Starmer would have to get all the 27 to agree. I’m afraid the EU itself AND each individual state have bigger and more urgent fish to fry.

Even in the humiliation of attempted renegotiation of the oven ready deal, there’s still this “we’re very important” delusion, which caused the sorry mess in the first place. Today, the UK isn’t very important to most EU states, they have moved on.


And some of them have (incl the EC) mentioned his plan is delusional. But we dont need to be a politician or barrister to know that.

No, never fancied a bit of flogging myself. Too much like hard work.

Interestingly, some quite well-considered commentators are suggesting quite the opposite and see it as a reasonable approach to rebuilding the UK relationship with the EU.

There’s no escaping that there is to be a review in the 2025-26 timeframe and, of course, the word renegotiate is sufficiently vague to cover a huge range of outcomes. I suspect many are overlaying their own desires or prejudices to define what they think the word means.

Personally, I’m glad to see him become a bit less cautious in the approach to the EU and a move away from the almost reflexive recoil from any hint of UK/EU cooperation of recent years.

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There was a splendid comment this week (in French, presumably by a French person) attached to a BFM article about the prospect of the UK seeking to rejoin the EU. I now can’t locate the actual text, but in effect it suggested that ‘Les Anglais’ would not only want to have their cake, would obviously want to eat it, but would also want to eat the entire bakery, if they rejoined. The commenter urged that any readmission should only be on exactly the same terms as any other new member (ie presumably joining the euro, Schengen, no UK rebate etc).

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I thought that was a given anyway, hardly news worth whoever it was commenting on. Surely no-one in their right mind thinks otherwise?

I have no doubt that there is a fairly large element of English exceptionalism that believes that the UK could just pick up where they left off.

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I suspect that if the idea of re-joining the EU were floated and it was made fully plain that it would be on the same basis as ‘any other country’ then the idea would be given a very frosty welcome by those who seem to be thawing to the idea that Brexit was a bad idea after all.

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Some EU dignitories have already come out and said Starmers ideals are delusional. Rejoing wont be made as easy as they think. Probably more hardship than brexit. The way some of the 27 are going there maybe not much left to join. I still think the EEC would be the best for all concerned.

What are Starmer’s ideals? I don’t think he’s ever mentioned rejoining other than to rule it out.

I suspect the delusion isn’t on Starmer’s part.

Well evidently he was cosying up to Macron not so long ago Exactly he says one thing then 5 mins later says the opposite. He doesnt come out with suggestions on how to solve matters. If some European commision members say his ideas are delusional then some thing must have been discussed about rejoining.

So, to summarise, you’re just making it up.

Where I have seen comment on his ambition being unrealistic is his talk of a “renegotiation” as the 2025 event is more of a technical review than a reopening of discussion. But, in terms of talking to Macron, it surely makes sense to go into that event with a solid relationship rather than the isolationist approach of the last 7 years.


It just amazes me how time was, and continues, to be spent on the whole Brexit fiasco. All those funds and time rallying around trying to drum up enthusiasm for Brexit initially, then all that time trying to sort out the horrendous mess, and now all that time rediscussing the whole episode and thoughts on rejoining. I do find the whole fiasco quite laughable, as think many of those in power need to actually get something ‘very real’ to worry about and resolve, rather than persistently ‘creating’ problems to then try to solve, unsuccessfully. And as for those that originally voted to leave, well………………… made the bed now they must lie in it, however comfortable or uncomfortable. In my view it will take at least a generation before there is any further meaningful discussion and potential to rejoin.

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“Many in UK and EU foreign policy circles warn that if Labour does win the election it is unlikely to find a receptive audience in European capitals for such a renegotiation unless the party is willing to offer significant concessions”

“Sir Keir Starmer’s attempt to rewrite the relationship is based on a delusion of a similar kind, that it is possible to stay outside the single market and the customs union and get a better deal.

No not made up. Extracts from your Bible the Guardian.

Starmer’s trip to Europe and suggesting closer links to the EU is done purely to gain votes in next year’s GE, I doubt for a single minute that he really believes nor has been told in private that a Labour government will be given any concessions in a re-worked trade deal.


They change direction as the wind. I just long for the time when we can see a real statesman who actually has the nation’s interests at heart, rather than someone permanently speaking with a forked tongue, and simply looking to feather their own nest. All the flimflam, but what is really needed is practical direction to build the country back up, as it sure is becoming such a directionless chaotic mess. Strong words, but reality, and only becoming worse. God help me if, for whatever remote reason, I was forced to move back :scream:

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Agreed. That will no doubt include the 'they need us more than we need them" brigade.

I suppose in any hypothetical future re-entry negotiation, you’d presume the EU’s default opening position would be ‘you join on exactly the same terms as any other candidate member’. The UK’s opening position might be 'but there is a world of a difference in joining between -say- a ‘small’ candidate country that’s never been a member, and - uniquely - one involving a former member, with a significant sized economy/shared body of law etc etc - and (no doubt!) we’d like to have the following exemptions.[€, Schengen etc]." And presumably any final position would end up somewhere between the two. It’s unlikely to be a take it or leave it negotiation, however hypothetical/unlikely.

I foresee a time when an honest Politician, with high ethical standards etc etc, will be elected to run the UK…

I’ve no idea when that might be… or if I will still be alive and kicking… :wink: :wink:

but with so many brilliant innovations these days… we’ll surely be seeing pigs-flying sometime soon… :roll_eyes: :rofl:

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I still don’t see rejoin in there.