Stopcock "encastrement"

Property & Home
1

OK, so I can, and probably will contact Saur for some info but a) it’s Sunday and b) the SF crowd is a helpful and knowledgable lot so I thought I’d ask here as well :slight_smile:

About 18 months ago some work was done on the water mains in the street - including, for us at least, the placement of a new stopcock within our boundary but outside the property - this was done by sinking a plastic box about 40x30x30cm into the graven drive. It has a cover which has some polystyrene insulation.

I assume this is so that the property can be isolated without needing to enter - which is OK by me as there’s only someone here about 10% of the time.

Does anyone know who’s responsibility the box and piping are? It’s on my property so is it mine? However it’s between the meter and the network so ?Saur’s - as Saur, like the water companies at home, keep offering me insurance to cover pipework between the street and the house I assume it’s mine.

We’ve arrived a few times to find, to our puzzlement that the lid has come loose.

When my wife was here a couple of weeks ago she noted there was a leak which I fixed yesterday (Saur’s responsibility or not I figured it would only take me a few minutes to sort out which proved to be the case - much quicker than “getting someone out”).

Today I find the lid off again despite making sure it was fitted securely yesterday - but now the mystery is solved (I think).

This is what I found (well, the lid wasn’t all the way to the side and, yes, the gravel badly needs weeding.

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If it rains the ground there saturates - it’s gravel and sandy soil but there must be something less permeable not too deep, the box fills and the top gets pushed/floats off on the rising water.

So - does anyone know if I can fix the lid down. There are holes which look like you could put a bolt through but no threads that I could see - underneath there might be a hexagonal recess which would take a nut but there would be little to retain it.

Also - anyone know how they do with frost, the polystyrene is 7-8cm thick, doesn’t look as though it would protect against much frost. I know Breton winters are mild but I don’t really want to arrive to find the water main is split because it has frozen, especially if the lid has lifted off.

2

Where is your water meter??

3

As far as I know the meter is still in the cellar on the wall at the front of the property (I’ve just sent the reading) - I actually thought that the point of the exercise had been to install meters outside the properties, and the box would be the logical place to do that - but no meter there, just an additional stopcock.

4

That is what I find rather strange… unless they could not get into your place to take out the old meter and put the new one “in the box”.

That box looks totally inadequate. We have them in some areas of our commune, but not filling with water like that. SAUR can make it slightly higher (the lip stopping ingress)… why not send them the photo and ask their advice. It’s their box, so don’t damage/adjust it in any way without permission.

If you could show the photo/mention it to your Mairie… they might get in the loop. They have contacts within contacts… :thinking:

A winter freeze will do a lot of no-good in such conditions…

5

IIRC the limit of Saur’s responsibility is their side of the water meter s well as the water meter itself. The exit side, if I can call it that, is the responsibility of the owner.
If the meter is below the cover in the chamber (your photo does not reveal that) then it has to be accessible to Saur (or their agents) to read it.
In our case, whilst we have a meter inside our boundary, the “stop cock” as such is not in the pit; it is located back in the street and is accessed by Saur using a powerful magnetised lifting device.
The pipe in to the meter and up to our property is modern (thick black plastic with a thin blue stripe, I think) and is designed not to freeze easily and buried in the ground as per French normes it is designed not to.

6

In our old rental, the meter was in a cupboard below floor level (with a myriad of stop cocks) but the main controlling factor was the “official” stop cock across the road in the ditch opposite.

7

Lost the stopcocks in the road near our house… well, actually the firm which laid the tarmac covered them with a substantial layer… fortunately I had taken photos during the works and the cantonnier could easily locate and “reveal” the equipment. However, those stopcocks were for a number of properties at one fell swoop and in turning the tap “off” 5 households or more lost their supply.

That’s fair enough if there is a major under-road leak… but each property now has its own plastic box with new meter and stopcock … yippee

Incidentally, I refused to let them put the big plastic box you show us… horribly intrusive I told them. They fitted a much smaller and discrete box which is just fine… :relaxed:

8

I’m not going to be able to take much of a better photo until the water has receded but, no meter in the box - perhaps Stella’s suggestion that they would  have moved it to the box had we been here when the work was done is correct - there is a short section of pipe which looks like it would be where the meter would go.

Tweaking the image you can see a bit more clearly what is in the box.

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The meter, as I said, is still in the property.

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I can see I’m going to have to approach Saur, although I might ask at the Maire’s office, unfortunately no-one there speaks English which will make it a fun challenge.

My worry is that, if I do approach Saur we they might be a bit too keen to move the meter and not address the problem with the installation.

9

I think you will find the insulation thickness is standard… :thinking:

We always turn our water supply off if we intend to be away for a few days - just in case, winter or summer. Only takes a moment, OH on his knees outside in the snow/whatever :rofl:

10

Wouldn’t help - the box isn’t watertight, there is a hole in the base and where the pipes ingress and egress - so if the ground saturates as it has done it will fill.

It’s about half full now that it has stopped raining heavily.

11

SAUR need to be aware of the situation - that much is clear.

Off to the Mairie with a written note explaining what is happening… Google/whatever will help you. They may tell you to contact SAUR or they might go that extra mile - you never know… :thinking:

12

Think I might contact Saur as can do that online - although I can’t honestly work myself up into making it a priority. Sticking a paving slab over the cover should stop it coming off and not prevent Saur getting access.

I haven’t tended to but might start, it shouldn’t affect the ability to leave the heating on during the coldest months.

13

The blue seal just after the internal stopcock is the limit of the water companies responsibilities , but I would turn your water off using both stopcocks, and in the winter drain from the box in the ground (You have a clapet anti-pollution with 2 drains, open them both as there is a non return valve inside) .
Not sure what you can do about the ground/rain water ingress though - fill the box with polystyrene and put a bloody great rock on top…

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14

I’m starting to see that as the best option.

15

painted blue perhaps…

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16

Hmmm…

I think Mark hits the nail on the head here - like him, now that I can see what is happening I don’t see that much can be done short of moving the box which Saur probably won’t be that interested in doing - it would need the street digging up and might well not solve the problem as I don’t think I could guarantee a “dry” spot. I’m guessing that it is intentionally not sealed, so as (normally) to allow any rain ingress or leak, or intentional draining of the pipework in the property to soak away.

They would, presumably, want to move the meter but that isn’t terribly important from my point of view.

If I need to leave it accessible sticking something heavy on the top to stop it floating away seems the best option.

17

Good idea to send a message to SAUR on-line. That way you have done your best… :relaxed:

Do you have a neighbour who could cast an eye on whichever rock you put on top of the lid?? Chances are the chap who reads the meter won’t replace it… :upside_down_face:

18

I presume that their records will show the meter is still in the house.

Not that the chap who comes to read the meter will check the records first, of course.

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19

Ha ha… he will see a green box and go for it (I reckon).

Unless it is your regular chappie, who will know they do an estimated one since they have no access to the property… :upside_down_face:

If/when they put the meter in the green box, they will have to do something to ensure it is water-tight… might as well get it organised for when you are next over (whenever)

20

absolutely correct @anon88169868 theu do maintain very accurate records. We had no idea when we asked saur to turn on our water where the governing stop cock was - it hadn’t been turned on in 40 years!
But they knew - even though the ground foliage had over grown it. They cleared it away and hey presto! there it was. A few tugs with the magnet stick and up it came - stop cock turned and voila!!
And after some searching I have found the photo or the buried stop cock found by Saur…

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We placed the big stone shown over it to ensure it can be found in the future… As you can see, it was well hidden.