Yes I’ve worked it out meanwhile Sandcastle! I’d discovered my place is still registered as a maison secondaire. So I’d put a note on the declaration mentioning the date I officially settled here and enclosed all the documents. As the nice guy in the local Treasury told me last year, the Treasury doesn’t do that update any more and it has to be done by the Tax Office.
It was clear the lady who called me didn’t understand what a frontalier is at all. She wasn’t really getting it when I said luckily being at home during Covid would show a much higher electricity consumption than normal and that the only basis on which I was able to qualify for the S1 form also attached was due to being a frontalier. She also suggested I google to find a form I asked her about instead of telling me where I could find it on the official website which surprised me a bit
Simples. I think the lady who called probably is only concerned with the secondary to primary residence change, and that my tax declaration and error correction will be looked at by someone completely different. As taxe d’hab will no longer be billed once it’s updated. So hopes the correction will be accepted when looked at
Hum. I had come across that bit of the website Stella, and followed the wording sufficiently in the email I’d sent. But I’d taken ‘courrier’ as being ‘courriel’ too.
I may follow your suggestion and send a hard copy of the email I sent, also by post. A long walk was already scheduled to the mairie next week, which also operates a post counter, weather permitting. After this evening’s electrical storm and downpour, which appeared nowhere on my favourite weather site yr.no, I could be doing the walk in flippers. Luckily accuweather was able to confirm we were indeed gettng rained on.
I am not sure there is any “register” of maisons secondaires / maisons principales as such. They get the information from the first page of the main tax form where there is a whole section about changes of address during the year to which the form relates and also the early part of the current year. I believe this year’s form will have asked about changes in address between 1.1.2021 and 31.12.2021, and also between 1.1.22 and the date when you completed the form, along with the dates of the changes. If you moved to France during 2021 then presumably on the form you will have entered your address in France and gave the date when you moved here, and gave the address of your previous primary residence. Based on the address section of the form the property will automatically be treated as a primary or a secondary residence for the year. The primary/secondary status is effect rather than cause if you see what I mean, they take it from your declaration rather than add it to your declaration.
Sometimes when officials do not understand a situation, their default mode seem to be “ask for another piece of paper”.
From the tax form guidance:
“Changement d’adresse
vous avez déménagé au cours de l’année 2021
Indiquez en page 1 de la déclaration la date du
déménagement et l’adresse exacte au 1er janvier
2022 à la rubrique “Vous avez changé d’adresse
en 2021”.
Pour que votre taxe d’habitation soit correctement établie, précisez si vous êtes propriétaire,
locataire, colocataire ou hébergé gratuitement.
…etc.”
One of the things I have advised (on this forum) is that folk who make the move to France “permanent”, do ensure that their French House Insurance is updated to show “residence principale” and not “maison secondaire”.
Providing this correct Insurance document, can be a useful “proof” of when one became Resident… @KarenLot if you did this, the document can support your “no taxe d’hab” rights.
I do not really see how this can be “proof” since (a) the insurance company does not check what you tell them and (b) it is important to the tax office to know your primary address, and in particular to know the date in which your permanent residence in France commenced, in order to calculate all of your tax liabilities of which the calculation of taxe d’habitation is just one. But certainly your home should be correctly insured.
When one becomes Resident there are various things which one should do… and Insurance is one of them… also informing your Bank that you are now Resident… Tax folk etc etc… changing the car immatriculation…
and you will note that I put “proof” in inverted commas…
For our CdS I used my House Insurance document as “proof” of when we arrived and it was accepted without question… no other details/docs needed.
(I have always advised UK friends to write a note explaining they are now permanently in France and that xxx is NOW their main residence… dated, signed and hand delivered to the Property Tax folk, nice chat with the receptionist… all done and dusted.)
But at the end of the day, it is the information provided on the tax form that is used.
No matter who you have “told” that you live here permanently, if you do not submit a declaration that year then your home will be taxed as a residence secondaire. And even if you have "told’ nobody, then if you have entered that address on your declaration as your primary residence, it will be taxed on the basis of the income you have declared. The “property tax folk” is, these days, the same computer that calculates all your tax liabilities.
My reply about Insurance was aimed at helping @KarenLot provide some sort of documented “proof” of when she became Resident… quite possibly she does have a papertrail which will be sufficient for the Taxe d’Hab lady…
I know I have enough proof. And fixing the taxe d’hab still being paid did not matter. It’s just that since committing to being in France I’m wanting to “regularise” everything despite the various struggles. I’ll be believing in redistributive taxation next, and wanting to vote soon.
Done my figures now, now to commence the grand on-line entering!
But - before I do, I wonder just how much ‘freedom’ / leeway one has with the £ /Euro conversion? I settled on the average of eurobank 4 Jan 2020 and 31 Dec, could I be cheeky and take the average of the highest and lowest amounts in the year?
it has to be said that the Fisc don’t ask you on the return to say what mechanism you used for conversion from Sterling to Euro BUT if challenged sometime later, you may be required by them to justify why you used that calculation, so keep records.
I think it’s a bit cheeky and probably open to debate , in the absence of anyone else who’s used that method I’ll stick to start and end of year.
A question on the guide for my declaring UK interest, in the 2047 under “your declaration concerns…”, do I select the radio box 'des revenues des valuers et capitaux mobilierer ’ - your example doesn;t seem to have you declare UK interest?
And also for the sake of clarity, in the appendix on your table for interest you have line 230 but I think it’s line 260?
The reason for that it is quite simple - the guide was constructed from my own experience in filling in our return online and we don’t have any UK interest to declare
All our savings are in French arrangements.
That said, interest on UK savings is declared in box 2TR on 2042 with any UK premium Bond winnings.
That reference was provided, as indicated, from a separate source (Isabelle Want, Allianz) and not my original work so I can’t answer for that unfortunately, but I’ll look out for it next year.
UK tax on interest was changed a few years ago and there is now an allowance before paying tax. Currently, non-tax payers have a tax-free allowance of £5000, basic rate tax payers have an allowance of £1,000 and higher rate tax payers an allowance of £500 you can earn from bank and other savings interest a year. If you exceed your allowance you will be taxed on any interest you earn after that at your highest tax rate.
Until the UK tax change, interest was declared in 230 (or the equivalent line to - line numbering has changed in recent years) and the tax rate entered. However when the tax rate became 0% there were problems. Originally the online French form would not accept 0 which was a stumbling block for some. It was necessary to enter a small figure (0.01 ?) to allow the calculation.
However, it then seemed simpler for those who had UK less than £1000 interest, so not paying and tax on it, to use 260 (or the equivalent line). Premium bond winnings were always declared there.
So there is choice. You can use 230 (and should do so if you pay UK tax on interest), but otherwise you can use 260 if you d o not pay tax on interest.
It doesn’t really matter as 2047 is only a working sheet, and not a declaration form, to get the figures entered on to 2042. In either case the result which ends up in 2TR is the same.
Would you be able to cover my question on setting up the bits of the 2047 from Grahams guide - it was:
A question on the guide for my declaring UK interest, in the 2047 under “your declaration concerns…”, do I select the radio box 'des revenues des valuers et capitaux mobilierer ’ -
ps Curious, I thought that as France resident I now declare and pay tax on all the interest received in France? How would one have a choice, Id presume you can’t make an election?
IIRC the institution (in France) paying the taxable interest declares the same for you and it appears on your return.
I’m not involved here… our savings are all with tax free arrangements - Livret A, LDD, LEP etc. and are beyond the scope of being declarable on the annual return.
Equally, there are other French tax efficient savings available - Assurance Vie for example.
Must confess that we receive about 4€ annual interest in France, which must be declared… and the “whatever” which holds our “whatever” and pays this huge amount… actually provides us with the document showing just where/how to Declare, each year … hurrah.
I thought you might not have UK interest to declare. One of my little jobs is to investigate France savings accounts (or at least Euro accounts) - Livret A etc…
Yes, you need to check the radio box and online it then brings up the section
2. REVENUS DES VALEURS ET CAPITAUX MOBILIERS IMPOSABLES EN FRANCE
which includes all the lines 200 onwards.
It depends on the source of your French interest. Some accounts are tax free and others are taxable. Some accounts are only for those with low incomes or with age limits or have maximum deposit limits. The French financial organisations report their payments to the fisc so should already appear pre-filled in on 2042.
You also need to consider checking 2OP on 2042 to stop being taxed at 30% on your unearned income. It only applies to those with high incomes and the calculation is not that simple given the way income is taxed on parts.
