Looking at the 2047 guidance notes, there is no mention there of advising them of the tax deducted on your UK government pension. I’m guessing their ‘logic’ is that France awards you its own tax credit - under the treaty - to prevent double taxation, irrespective of whatever amounts of PAYE etc have been deducted on the UK. I attach the guidance extract FYI. Have you also entered the income in box 8TK which is what will trigger the French tax credit?
Tax office this am where I was told not to enter brut or net gov pension on 2042 complimentaire …just microfoncier income and to tick box re holding an S1. I will work on completing over the weekend. I have 2042, 2042 C, 2047 and 3916. Wish me luck!
I seem to be the only one sent 2042C , apart from David Spardo who I seem to remember also got one last year when, like me, he had to file 2 returns as a widower
Entering a figure in Box 8VM is specifically for situations where France allows the offset of the foreign tax credit against its own tax liability. That doesn’t apply for foreign public/government pensions, where - as outlined in my post above - France gives you its own tax credit equal to the French tax due to eliminate double taxation.
George 1 Many thanks but on last years return I was able to declare the tax deducted on 2047 and thus again at 8VM on the main declaration. Under Divers on 2042 it says declare tax deducted . Nowhere to do it other than at 8VM. Do that and up comes a box stating” there is an error”
I will keep trying and with a little luck find a way. Cannot get near a tax rep until 26 May
George 1
Thankyou again. If I remove the figure from 8VM it then tells me that an amount of tax is payable and shows the estimated sum.
Never had that before , so if the amount I paid in Uk is greater than the amount shown, does that mean I pay no tax in France. This has been the situation for the past 25 years.
Do I. show the sum paid in UK anywhere on 2047 or 2042?
Are you reporting your UK government pension exactly as advised above by myself and @JaneJones? If so, there should not be any French tax due - unless you have other taxable income in France. The whole point of the reporting as advised, is to ensure that France, by giving you a tax credit equal to the French tax, does not directly tax the government pension. However it has the effect of raising the tax due on any remaining income (“exemption with progression” or EWP)..If you have no other income, I cannot explain why you have a liability, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Dare I ask - have you been claiming your UK tax against the French liability on your government pension (for 25 years?!). If so, I hate to tell you that’s incorrect. If that UK tax always exceeded your French tax it would indeed show no overall French liability, but would unfortunately not be compliant at all.
The return does elsewhere ask for details of the UK tax paid, since for technical reasons, the calculation of EWP uses the net of tax figure, as determined by the tax treaty. That is a long way from being able to use the UK tax to wipe out your French liability.
Personally I would draw a veil over the past and apply the treatment advised above going forwards. Obviously it is your decision how you choose to report it, but I fear that if the tax office is on the ball (despite all evidence to the contrary!), they would probably notice the continued use of a foreign tax credit where none is due. However you wouldn’t be the first person to continue with the historic treatment….
George 1
I have managed an RV on 30th at the local office so will go with my current return part completed, and previous years declarations. I have been following advice I got when I first arrived and until now no issues
Many thanks for your advice
It does happen that you have no issues, unless you are selected for a random control when things go badly awry.
Who did you get your advice from, and how long ago? It is a sad reality that many local tax offices do not understand international issues - for example they confuse the different types of pensions and how they should be declared. And handholders are renowned for mistakes.
Only the International division is reliable. If you don’t feel confident about what you are told on the 30th then nudge them towards pushing your questions to that division.
Ok will see how it goes. I had advice from a tax office and later had same advice from a different office after changing address ,but things keep changing although Until this return I have always filled it online and had no problems this year.
Purely for your information, I attach a screenshot of what the agreed treatment of UK government pensions should be, taken from the UK France tax treaty article on avoidance of double taxation ( Article 24 (a)(i)). The English and French language versions are of equal standing legally and your tax office should have access to the text. Note the information in the 5th line of (a) about the non deductibility of UK tax.
I genuinely wish you the best of luck in your rdv.
On the 2047 paper return do i put the total of both pensions and tick prive and publique as ther is only one line for pensions. Thanks.
Two options:-
- If there is a line in section 1 for declarant 1 and a separate line for declarant 2, cross out the 2, put 1, and ensure you report the government pension on one line and the private pension on the other; report only the public pension in section 6;
- Report both pensions on the one line in section 1, tick both private and public and ensure that in section 6 you only report the public pension….
As always many thanks
I think I understand the section, but don’t pretend to understand why they feel the need to include what are effectively two “competing” methods of declaring items such as UK government pensions, UK rental income etc - all in the same guidance document!.It’s a recipe for confusion.
Happily both methods will lead to (broadly) the same answer - which is to exempt the income from French tax but take it into account for the purposes of calculating tax on any other remaining taxable income (taux effectif). Of the two methods I still prefer the “classic” conventional method below, as it specifically includes the granting of a French tax credit, that should eliminate any double taxation, and aligns most closely with the tax treaty wording.
2047 section 1(12), and section 6
2042 boxes 1AL/1BL + 8TK
Yes am wondering whether to complete it at all but it is the only formulaire that gives me a box to tick re S1 and exoneration from charges. Thank you George