Tax implications selling our house in UK

cool

thx

That may be the case but the France CGT of 36.2% plus a possible surtax of 2-6% if the gain is more than 50,000 EUR will very quickly erode the extra value you may end up building in the property. Plus the UK CGT (18% or 28%) that you will also have to pay. (Credited against your France CGT liability).
I would calculate the expected gain on the house if you kept it that extra 2 years minus France & UK CGT, compare to sale whilst still UK resident minus early redemption fee on the mortgage.
You may be surprised by the numbers.

Blevins Franks - 2020 tax guide - snip:

What about selling your property?

In France, the gain on the sale of your French main home is always exempt from capital gains tax

provided that the property is your actual home at the time of sale.

However, under the UK/France Double Tax Treaty, if you are French tax resident, gains arising on

UK properties are subject to French capital gains tax at 36.2% including social charges (plus a surtax

of between 2% and 6% where the gain is more than €50,000). This would apply even if the property

was your main home before you moved to France. You could also be liable to UK capital gains tax

and in this case, to avoid double taxation, you would get a tax credit in France for tax paid in the UK.

Sorry to deviate slightly but would you calculate French capital gains on sale of a UK property(bought while resident in France converting € to pounds) using the €/ sterling exchange rates at the time of purchase and sale (taking into account still resident in France and sale money recoverted to euros) ,or just convert the UK capital gain back into €rate at the date of sale ?
Thanks in advance

Interesting question… but I reckon you can use whatever the UK Tax Folk use… they’ll presumably give a breakdown of how their “Bill” is arrived at… or the Solicitor presiding over the Sale…

Then you’d have that document to support your Declaration in France… and the French Tax folk will help you with their side of things…

Others will doubtless chime in…

Given that converting income from GBP to EUR for French income tax purposes, the convention is any number of different mechanisms, I somehow doubt the fisc will be terribly concerned how the figure is arrived at except as to say, whatever mechanism you use, keep your own records as to how it is arrived at in the event that you are later challenged to explain.
I would not see a need to tell the fisc your workings initially unless demanded by them (unlikely) and it would therefore be for you to select which mechanism is used to your advantage - except of course in circumstances where they tell you how to make the calculation :wink:
This reply was formulated from Sir Humphrey Appleby’s guide to political speak published by the Westminster Press :slightly_smiling_face:

cross reference to ID checks and tax on gains topic

Thank you both I’ll look into your info later as just off for a medical RDV However there would be potentially practically no gain if I used the €/sterling exchanges but a French capital gain if used the gain as Ive already declared and paid in UK

then that would appear to be your best option, would it not?

Hi Peter, after months of discussions and research finally we decided to sale our house and to pay the early repayment fees which will be cheaper as you rightly said last year then CGT lol.
So if we sale our main house we could go to France in an airbnb or even rent a flat and look for a house without having to pay any cgt right?
thx

I know you’re asking PeterJ, but just to say that we sold our main residence in UK, then moved over to France. Nothing to pay to France on the money we gained through the UK house sale and we used it to finance our new life…

Mind you, when we moved large sums over to our French Bank (CredAg)… That bank did ask where the money was from… but once they understood, no more questions.

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that was the position in our case too… we planned it that way.

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It was the only way we could afford to simply “stop”… and emigrate… :slight_smile: and the house sold so quickly… it was “meant to be”…

yes, well we “liquidated” all our assets on the sale of our property, paid off the mortgage and all bank/CC debt which left us completely debt free in France with sufficient funds then to buy some land and build our new home in France unencumbered - all at the age of 56. We self funded our existence until our pensions kicked in.
This really would not have been possible had we remained in the UK. I have to admit we considered it and sketched out a plan but in the end, it really did not seem viable and the draw of emigrating to France was too alluring to dismiss. Time has proved that to be the best decision and we have no regrets whatsoever.

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OH would be dead if we’d stayed in UK… it was our family doctor (and friend) who told us to “get out while you still can…”

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As I read the advice on the French government pages… You can calculate the original purchase price as if you had bought it in France at the time. Although the Franc was still legal currency when we bought in the UK, the Euro was already being traded and we found the official rate for the Euro to GBP at the time. That was close to 3 euros to 2 GBP. So our purchase price in Euros was higher than using a recent rate, and thus our gain was reduced, when deducted from our sale proceeds expressed at Oct 2021 Euro rates.

Thanks Joco
I eventually found the relevant information, thank goodness, as it brought down my capital gain considerably.
It would have been exonerated if I had been able to buy a property(using the proceeds of the UKhouse) within 24months of selling as I have been in rented accomodation here since a divorce.(Unfortunately Covid and a very overheated property market here has meant my 24months have run out so will have to pay anyway)

Hi John - interested to read your post re CGT in France payable on uk property sale. We are tax residents in France (since 2018), but looking to sell our uk property currently rented out.

On uk cgt rules with the various allowances (particularly for improvements / extensions) I don’t think we would owe any uk cgt.

But aware we would probably owe France cgt. Just wondering if the same allowances (for improvements / extensions, original stamp duty paid in the uk, legal expenses) apply for French cgt calc as the uk one? Also the allowance for when it was our primary residence which uk cgt accounts for? From your note the improvement / extension part may depend on the French tax office’s acceptance of our builders / invoices for that?

Thanks! Rosie

Sorry not to respond more swiftly … we have been travelling with limited internet since I first saw your query. Since you are already resident in France, I think for the UK the first thing is to establish the value of the property at the key date for HMRC of 5/4/2015. For that I used the Hometrack service, which I thought was cheap. I gather there has been a recent drop in UK property values generally of about 4.5% which will make a difference potentially, but will not be firmed up till you have a sale price. Once I had the difference or assumed difference there is an HMRC CGT calculator for overseas owners, and you can explore the 3 alternative methods to see which is likely to best suit your circumstances, I ended up having to query HMRC when I did fill in the online forms following the sale, because the method that was best for me was not evident on the online form, I was advised to use a note section to identify the calculation method I used (Straight Line Apportionment, based on the 30% of total gain made since 5/4/2015).
For the French CGT I used the formulaire 2048-IMM. Against the purchase price you can set: valid purchase expenses; valid sale expenses; actual bills from contractors- or 15%; then arrive at the initial capital gain (plus value). Then there are a series of deductions for the years that you have owned it to remove a percentage of the revenue tax - this leads to a calculation of the tax to be paid. Overleaf you go through the same process for the Social Charge chargeable.
Then there is a line where you deduct the CGT paid abroad (ie to HMRC). It makes sense to be able to sort out the HMRC CGT payment asap, to be then able to send the receipt with the French calcs, (It all has to be completed within 2 months anyway).
For me the tax chargeable (7.5% only - the third line down, if accompanied by form S1) was still about 4 times the revenue tax due, mainly due to the Social Charges applying to 30+ years of ownership compared to 22. It still can make sense to keep a house in the UK rented out for a few years extra if the calculation does not look positive.

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Hi JoCo

Can I just confirm: I will need a notaire to complete form 2058 IMM, right?

Hi. I completed form 2048-IMM myself. It was accepted by the Impots.
There is nothing particularly difficult in it, and for a UK property I am not sure what value a french notaire could add