Tax implications selling our house in UK

The only thing I would add to your excellent exposition @larkswood12 is that, in normal parlance, a capital gain is different from income and taxed differently in both countries. My understanding was that the double taxation treaty ONLY applies to income and not to capital gains and therefore capital gains can be taxed (fully) twice if the authorities are so minded. Am I wrong about this?

I don’t think you are wrong Angela. I know of someone who has lived in France for some years (remarried) and the old (prior) UK matrimonial home was sold generating a sizeable bill from the French state. The position on the UK CGT bill is unknown but would have met UK requirements at the time (~8 years ago). AFAIK in the previous marriage, they were joint owners of the property.

The DTT has a specific article, 14 entitled ‘capital gains’, and includes property, shares, property companies and ships! :slight_smile:

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Exactly Angela. If it’s not covered in the DTT then you are most likely liable to pay each country’s full tax with no offset/excuse/mitigation.

S1 does exempt from all social charges if called social charges and not, say, solidarity tax (ahem).

Tory’s materials were excellent as kindly provided to the OP.

As I see it the OP should consider

(1) delay becoming resident in France till property sold. not much lost by this unless OP qualified for residence under Withdrawal Agreement.

(2) only 1 becomes resident now and the other joins later as a family member, especially if using/qualified for residence under WA. Person remaining in UK owns then sells. Prob incurs stamp duty on the half transferred to the one remaining btw

(3) put property into new ltd co and manage it as an investment. It’s a flexible solution especially if long term renting and especially if other income. Needs financial adviser or good small business accountant in UK to set up right and eventually plan the most protective exit option well ahead.

(4) pay lots of tax, some of which unnecessary. not just CGT

BTW is it just me - everyones ‘real’ names have disappeared from view. If it’s not just me, do you think it’s because of the ‘trolling’ bit over on the ducks in a row thread?

@larkswood12 There’s a topic on it here

S1 applies to working income too. You can only get S1 pre-UK retirement age now, if resident in France before 01Jan2021 and working as frontalier or posted worker. Note working for a UK company remotely from France means you won’t qualify as a person working in UK. I was also told 25% tolerance for that but best to make it accidental/occasional or incidental and keep it low. They ‘will’ know, if they want to.

Otherwise you can only get S1 as qualified retired for UK retirement when you reach UK state pension age

many thanks - didn’t see that! Poor guy, hope he made it.

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Surely only on pension income? We pay social charges on everything else (and are still trying to get back overpaid social charges from 2017 post the De Ruyter judgement).

or have a partner who has

I agree - hence me wittering on about the difference between income and other forms of gain. I’m exempt on my pension income but not on the “massive” amount of interest on my savings each year (:wry-smile:)

on everything / social charges so far as I understand it.

Anecdotally others here will know better than me but it seems tax overpaid or anything taken that wasn’t due is practically impossible to get them to pay you back here

Social charges are definitely payable by S1 holders on what would be called “unearned income” in the UK

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This is me! Arrived December and frontaliering away - just without the frontier as we’re all locked down!

I keep checking and France has extended the suspension of the 25% teleworking’ limit to end September. Might be extended further the way ‘opening up’ is going!

I read you were trying to go to UK for an interview? I hope you are not too impacted by all the UK shenanigans over vaccine / beta variants etc? The boss has booked us all in for a team meeting / meal in London in October - I have no idea how that, or my getting to it, will pan out.

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I would consider that unfair as the UK pays our social charges by way of us having an S1. Not the case on earned income in the UK which is all I have

I don’t agree. Social charges aren’t just for health care, which is what the UK pays for as I understand it. Perhaps I’ve got that wrong but I’m just grateful that I have any form of exemption. There was a time not so long back when it looked like no-one was going to get their healthcare fnded by the UK :scream:

I got the contract - highly suitable on both sides. But had to turn it down. Gutted as it’s been a very long time since my last contract. Surviving on a few hundred furlough each month and less before, is a strain on the nerves.

The maniac decisions to lift restrictions in the UK too soon were a factor in having to turn down the offer. As I would have had to be in the UK fulltime in the working week. Even vaccinated it’s going to be highly risky August-September. I would have had to start next week. Unnecessary deaths are definitely going to be caused by this UK precipitation to remove restrictions too soon

Employer started being an idiot trying to say, after the contract was offered and accepted, I couldn’t go home weekends (on my own time) except very limitedly. They’d taken some poor or irrelevant advice in another case and wanting to apply incorrect restrictions.

I had Pfizer upset stomach and inflamed lymph glands, was melting days in 32 degrees, being messed about here by a local on something needing to sort in order to depart, had always told them my track record is fulltime in the UK but I do return weekends from the start. Originally I’d refused to apply until that was accepted as OK by employer, when I’d detected some unease of the agent when he’d approached me.

Looking at the disease danger in the UK as well, I didn’t have the energy to set them right when they started this rubbish. Gutted I had to turn it down. Glad not to be forced to be in UK August-September though while the infection rips through the population killing vulnerable people. Due to having so many young unvaccinated people to give it life and development.

Well done! Sorry it didn’t work out.

Though you surely couldn’t have commuted weekly because you’d have to quarantine for 10 days?

The cross border worker category is back on the exemptions list but entitled ‘regular work abroad’ - reads like UK resident frontier worker- but does say one would be allowed out to go to work (only).

And then says if in France you have to follow the ‘standard’ amber rules - whatever these are lol…

And you’d have to get another set of phizer or whatever to get the NHS exemption certificate! (which doesn’t count at the mo anyway). We could do a collection - one for each country! Crazy…

I’ve got a bit confused as what you think is unfair?

The UK pays for my health care by dint of OH’s pension and S1 from a working life of paying NI in the UK. But we are not exempt from all the other social charges, and they created their solidarity tax of 7.5% to get round this as well. We pay more in social charges/solidarité tax than we do in income tax.

quarantine no issue as they were all working offsite till October. but you’d have still needed to get food etc. Plus travel to UK with no social distancing etc., and even if did Test to Release there was still risk. Delta spreading like wildfire whereas 2m distance had been advised for that. The danger in the UK was the final straw that made the rest a total overload.