Hello folks! I’m new here, hopefully someone may or may not have some advice. I’ve had a search but I didn’t quite find anyone going through a similar thing.
I moved to France with French husband in March 2019 and got my CdS late 2020, working as a frontalier full time. Since then, I’ve changed jobs, once to a proper employment in France (but field-based in Europe) for a year, and then really needing to get out of this job, I took a new one in Zürich. This meant moving my primary residence there, and I’ve been here officially for about 2.5 years. It seems likely that I’ll soon be offered a new job which means I can go back to being a frontalier and move back in officially with hubby, and this all falls within the WA provisions as far as I can see. However, I have literally no idea who I have to notify on the French side to say I am coming back into the country to live there again. Does anyone have any clues about the procedure here? Any advice or tips from anyone having run into a similar exercising of the WA rules would be heartily welcomed!
Why do you think falls within WA provision? Did you get a 10 year card for some reason in 2020? And aren’t you eligible for spouse of french person card?
True. But if she has broken her WA cover with being outside France for 2.5 years this might be easiest option. Until we know if she has 5 or 10 year card it’s hard to say.
Same, but that’s what I was given - they were going to give me a 5 year one and then they called me back to say they would give me a 10 year one, didn’t give the reasons, and it’s definitely valid for 10 years.
Unfortunately, I can’t help with your actual question as I’ve stayed as an inactif and, other than submitting my application for the CdS and requesting a carte vitale, I haven’t formally informed anyone. Might be the same for you but I couldn’t really say.
Did you submit tax returns to France for all the years ? Have you been ib the French Health System? If the answer to those questions were Yes I’d say you were a frontalier. If niot I’d register with Inpôts or let them know I am back pronto, and get back into Health via CPAM ditto.
Tax returns yes - although as I’m working outside France and NOT as a frontalier I am not paying tax in France. My husband called to ask about this and they were pretty clear, there have been no issues on the tax returns, I’m definitely not a frontalier. It’s also not allowed for non-EU to work as a frontalier in a non-adjacent canton (this is why I’ve moved to Switzerland, it’s too far inland to count). I’ve been in the French healthcare system but again not as of the last 2.5 years. I’m still down as paying taxe d’habitation and we jointly own properly so I’m nominally still somewhere in the “system” I guess. I’ve emailed the prefecture at any rate to see if they have any clues, let’s see if they reply.
I’ve also not moved back yet - I still need to be actually offered the job - I just can’t work out what I need to do on the French side (Swiss is pretty clear about the process of deregistering) to say “hello, I am now officially resident here again”!
I couldn’t find anything else, so that suggests you don’t need to do anything! Update your carte vitale, maybe tell tax office, but not much else to do!
Ooh I’m not actually sure this is true folks! The main reason I am trying to check is based on the one occasion I travelled to the UK (family emergency) in 2023 to and from Basel airport before my Swiss residence permit had made an appearance (I did have proof of submitting the application and my work contract etc. with me). I tried to come back into Schengen using my CdS first as I couldn’t find any indication of being unable to use it - cue 25 minutes of stressed French and Swiss airport border people not really knowing what to do with me but not wanting to let me pass, because they absolutely had me down as resident in Switzerland but had presented the “wrong” card - got a stern telling from the French border chap that the prefecture would be in touch and I wasn’t even supposed to have the card … luckily I carried all relevant paperwork as insurance and there was no serious issue as such, and in the event of course nobody contacted me about using the CdS because it’s still technically valid.
However, I don’t really want to accept an employment offer then run into more border issues and residence validity queries having left my current job, I’m happy to argue with border people if I’ve got enough pieces of paper in hand but if I can avoid a more serious obstruction in advance, that feels sensible. I think doing the abmeldung in Switzerland probably triggers it as you need to tell them where you’re going, but the information about this online seems scarce.
I’m really hoping the prefecture get back to me with some sort of answer (I can then print it and take it to the border with me along with the relevant WA pages), also considering pestering the French consulate in Switzerland as I’m sure I cannot be the first person to have ever attempted this??
Thanks all, the moral support is wonderful though!
Can I ask, are you sure your card is TUE Article 50?
If I was the prefecture, I might say you have been granted permanent residence evidenced by the card you hold, not invalidated by the time spent out of the country (up to 5 years if Art 50). Or I might say, we conclude you are a frontalier, returning to your family life in France on a periodic basis.
Or if it is a TUE Art 50 card, I might say you appear to no longer have the Article 50 right by extended absences. I might or might not cancel the card, I probably would not because I have limited information you have supplied and I cannot make a formal decision here, which of course you would have the right to appeal under the WA. I may decide I am not going to take any action here, as is the right of countries to choose not to enforce the residence requirements if they wish.
Edit - or I might advise you to consult an immigration lawyer to determine your status…
Or I might not reply…
So I (me now, not Mr/Mrs prefect) think you will probably be fine, and in any case as pointed out if you are not, you have the married to France citizen right, so surely no problem for the France job going forward. And currently you can show them your 10 year card currently valid for 5 years into the future.
Do please let us know if you get a reply from the prefecture and what its advice might be, we’re always interested here!
Thanks for the reply! Yeah I’m absolutely sure it’s TUE article 50 (believe me, I was surprised when this was what I picked up, but I’m not one to look a gift horse in the mouth - we concluded perhaps it was just based on the fact we had gone to a lot of trouble to register our marriage with the consulate in London and get a livret de famille sorted, that I already spoke French and was gainfully employed and under 40 etc.). I’m honestly definitely not a frontalier though, it’s explicitly not permitted by the Swiss rules to be a frontalier in a non-adjacent canton. Will reply when I get some clarity on it!
The frontalier you”re mentioning is a particiular arrangement Switzerlamd has for people working just over the border from their residence on Swiss or French side.
That arrangement is a Swiss particular thing.
Here on SF I and the other poster who mentioned it have both been frontaliers in the more general sense that most certainly applies between France snd the UK. And probably the more general type of frontalier also applies between France and its residents who have jobs in other countries but return to home in France on some sort of regular-ish commuting pattern.
I cannot see why you working anywhere in Switzerland, not necessarily the narrow set of cantons to which the specifically Swiss version of frontalier applies, would not be considered the same as my regular commuting to London for work.was, in my early years resident in France.
All that mattered was a residence in France [ in your case I would have thought a husbsnd in France was a clue] and to have some sort of regular-ish pattern of returning to home in France. In the old days they’d have looked for weekly. But modern work is different and there was flexibility when I had to prove it.
So I think.you’re getting caught up the narrow Swiss tyoe of frontalier in that narrow context of cantons adjacent to.the border, and the wider more normal definition of frontalier that is slso generally available and not just with Switzerland.
And just to add to @KarenLot ‘s post @kawo , I did also think it a bit odd re. frontalier suiss coz suiss is definitely in the WA.
However, I do recall there is specific mention of frontier working in the double tax treaty between France and Suiss which, again I recall, makes mention of specific cantons which may have different treatments for frontalier workers. That is all about the tax treatment - where you pay taxes, and not about frontaliers in the sense of the EU cross border working directives.
So maybe that might be source of any confusion - although you are a cross border worker domiciled in France (household, loyer), you do not fall into France tax because of the FR/CH double tax treaty - the Suisse canton has all the taxing rights on your income. But as far as the WA agreement is concerned, you are still a frontalier.
Just a thought, and also - will the official down the prefecture responding to your request for advice really know any of this stuff ?
I reiterate, bonne chance, and also belated marriage congratulations from 6 years ago - aren’t you now eligible for requesting France nationality!
