TfL UK robbery

Not so. My G.maps route from Vire to Lille via Rouen mentions tolls but not the LEZ. However, fortunayely, short of the option to go via the Honfleur bridge I was warned “LEZ en route.”. It was the same coming back.

This is one of the reasons I have for objection to the FR a/route toll system. The a/routes in any country are a national asset which benefits everyone, not just the people driving on them. They keep thru traffic out of urban areas, they make most efficient use of the vehicles using them, in terms of time and m.p.g.

On my first road trip down the Spanish Med coast in 2002 I avoided the autopista toll roads. It was a nightmare. Most of the commercial vehicle traffic was on that route. The road was pot-holed, broken up, narrow, went thru’ an endless succession of towns, villages and industrial zones in a crawling crocodile of HGVs.

On the way back, using the a/pista, I noted that the few ES cars using it tended to be Mercs, BMWs, Audis and other cars of the ‘executive’ class. No ES HGVs, no light commercials …

That route, from La Jonquera at the FR border to Algeciras - the full 1260 km length of the Med coast of ES - is now toll-free. The Spanish are not renewing the AP peage contracts on most of their APs as they come up for renewal.

I find it bizarre that the FR, who require registration of most sorts of vehicles, including caravans, trailers above the minimum size and small horticultural machines, don’t charge a ‘vehicle tax’ [UK Road Fund Licence and a similar vehicle tax in ES.]

The road system, being a national asset, should be paid for by everyone in the same way as other national assets. There must be journeys of tens of thousands of kms made by vehicles avoiding tolls which would be better made by using the A/routes.

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Perhaps it’s a way of demonstrating France is a socialist country - tax the wealthy with big cars who travel fast over long distances. Keep local roads free for the ordinary people.

Said semi-seriously, and not as a political jibe.

Here’s the history

That usually means the assets belong to ‘the people’ …

Unfair doesn’t worry me, life is unfair :roll_eyes:

It’s just not practical to have a low emissions area on a autoroute which one is only using because it allows you, at a hefty fee, to travel efficiently. Autoroutes, autostradas, autobahns, etc. are, by definition, high emissions zones :thinking:

Hi emissions due to volume of traffic? Engines running in traffic not going anywhere passing slowly through towns surely more polluting. 20mph probably even more so as lower gears are selected but do make large incomes for mobile camera operators who themselves decide if they will operate 20mph +10% +2mph as the police do in most cases. 50/50 split in fines between the Met and private camera company.

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Indeed, the point of a LEZ is to move the source of the pollution, not stop it. But as pointed out, vehicles travelling freely on the autoroute will be less polluting than crawling through clogged streets.

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Sort of - the Crit’air sticker is meant to create a gradual decrease in the use of polluting vehicles in cities - by gradually changing the classes of vehicles that can come into the ULEZ zone. Eventually (as it says on the Crit’air site) only non-polluting vehicles will be allowed. Presumably everyone by then will have either bought an electric car or switched to public transport.

In London they are using a different approach - you can still drive into the ULEZ zone in the filthiest smelliest car you can find - you just have to pay a £12.50/day fee to do so. The fee is meant to be the deterrent, rather than by simply banning the worst offending vehicles as the Crit’Air system does. It also raises a nice chunk of money of course - £224M in 2022. It’s claimed this money goes into “improving London’s road network and making the air cleaner”. However it would be interesting to know what the net income is after the cost of all those cameras plus the cost of enforcing fines is deducted.

Also the net income is “forecast to fall to negligible levels” by 2027 as drivers switch to greener cars. One wonders if this is why Khan wants to expand the zone to the outer London boroughs, to replace the revenue??

That is what I was worried about, I have a yellow one but thought it might drop out of the permitted classes at some point without me knowing. They have our details, I wonder if there will be notification if that happens.

Indeed. Having got used to the income they’ll just have to find another revenue stream.

It says on the Rouen LEZ web page that ’ There is a possibility that from January 2025 the minimum standard will be Crit’Air sticker 2." - which is what you have.

So I think it it will be a good while before only category 1 or 0 vehicles are allowed, and I would imagine there will be plenty of notice given.

Thanks Chris, that is re-assuring, however to show how I am so badly clued up on this I thought 2 was a lower category, not a higher one. :roll_eyes:

That’s a good question Gordon, which I’ve been pondering too. If a debt collection agency has illegally acquired the address of the debtor, can the debt be enforced using that address? Maybe it can and the illegal behaviour of the agency is separate issue? If that were to be the case then one should get ones retaliation in first so that the debt collectors realise pursuing the debt is going to be more trouble than it’s worth.

I’ve a pal that’s a huissier (great bloke whose sound advice I have sought before) so next time I bump into him I’ll ask. Could take a while though as we’re away for July. We’re hooking up with Bruce in Hyde Park :face_with_hand_over_mouth: on the 6th.

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It’s all very well pushing polluting cars outs of major urban areas but unless alternative routes are available what are people supposed to do?

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Great & useful reply. French Huissiers are very highly regulated on a par with Notaires. Interesting to find out initially who precisely is instructing the Huissier to collect said debt and under what authority? Presumably someone has to pay for their service from the outset which involves correspondence/emails. . We don’t know the answer yet as nobody has actually confirmed the said ULEZ debt has been legally enforced in France and under what precise authority. Seems much is hearsay so far.
So friends watch this space and the advice of your Huissier pal… I still await my ULEZ reply !

Keep me posted Gordon and I’ll do likewise. Illegitimi non carborundum :slightly_smiling_face:

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There needs to be a corresponding public transport strategy plus out of town parking, operated at a price that convinces drivers it’s the best option. In the UK councils prefer to use a stick rather than carrot.

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So true. Many years ago I was sent some kind of electronic doodad quite unasked for and which I did not need. I told the company that sent it to come and collect it by appointment or it would remain here unused.

They set the hussiers on me who contacted me by letter threatening all sorts if I did not send it back. My reply was short and sweet. I did not know what it was, I did not ask for it. I do not want it. If your client sends me the cost of postage I will wrap it up in gaffer tape and send it back to them. If they don’t it stays here. I have never heard from either of them again.

It is still here somewhere, no idea where but I throw nothing away. :rofl:

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I can supply you and members with some interesting additional information from the “horses mouth” TLF received this afternoon. I will try to precis it as much as possible.
The reply is under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 " ULEZ require a higher emission standard than “most” french cities" "Foreign compliant vehicles can re register with them (this you are aware of already) "Non compliant foreign vehicles are dealt with by their “service provider” EURO PARKING COLLECTIONS. Upon receipt of information EPC will ENDEAVOUR to obtain vehicle details from local licensing authority with a view to establishing COMPLIANCE or ISSUING a penalty !
"In June 2021 the European Commission published an “adequacy finding” in respect of UK data protection compliance and THIs permits transfers of personal data from the EU to UK !
" the bsis for TFL’s request (via EPC as TFL’s service provider) to your national or regional vehicle licensing authority for the REGISTERED KEEPER details would be that there has been a contravention of the above UK regulations which TFL is entitled to enforce. NEITHER TFL or EPC rely on local (European) legislation to PERSUE ENFORCEMENT!!

It is the DECISION of the INDIVIDUAL Vehicle Licensing Authority to RELEASE the keeper details PROVIDING they are satisfied with the reason behind the request. IN OUR VIEW, the relevant processing condition under the EU GDRP that would make any such disclosure LAWFUL is found in ARTICLE - 1) F) where the… processing is necessary for the purpose of the legitimate interests pursued by… a third party". for the RECENTLY issued penalties to the keepers of FRENCH registered vehicles I can confirm that EPC OBTAINED the French keeper details from the FRENCH VLA (SIV) via the National Contact Point Network. Signed Graham Hunt FOI Officer. FOI Cse Management Team, General Council. Transport for London.

So its seems EPC is one way or another managing to “persuade” French authorities to release keeper’s details. The question remains that this is only the first stage. The next stage is whether such Third Party country vehicle fines are enforcable through the French Courts ? I am none the wuser for the moment. Perhas you and or others can help & give their advice & opinons . GS