That political discussion with occasional humour thread

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You beat me to it - again!

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It might be in Iceland - but he’ll never know the difference.

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Or perhaps ICEland, better take body armour.

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OTOH Burnham has a job to do for Labour as mayor for Manchester. Perhaps he should put his personal ambition on hold for a second and get on with that and serve the people who elected him to that position.

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IMHO Starmer is an incompetent, vacillating arse (as is Reeves).

Maybe Burnham’s duty to the British people is to try and unseat him?

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Why do we have to be so negative about everyone who is not quite to our taste?

Everyone in their tribe, no discourse with other tribes just the daily two minute hate, Orwell was so prescient it hurts (except it’s more like the two hour hate and Hate Week is more like Hate Month).

Yes, Starmer has made some distinct gaffs which demonstrate his relative inexperience - and perhaps lack of talent for “politics”. But - as I’ve said before, I’d rather have someone who is bad at politics and quietly gets things done than, say, Johnson who was great at the politics but awful at everything else.

You could say “ah but he’s not getting things done” - I’d actually beg to differ. We’re back in Erasmus, back in Horizon and the tone towards the EU is softening.

Fullfact has a tracker of progress towards manifesto promises here Government Tracker – Full Fact

Of 86 pledges 57 have been achieved, are on track or in progress - well over half. Which does not seem too bad to me.

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Hear hear

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This isn’t funny, nor is it meant to be, ICE are out of control. :rage:

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Well that’s quite a philosophical and broad ranging question Billy, which I don’t think I’m qualified to answer.

However re my comment on Starmer, your assessment on progress since Labour was elected seems more rose tinted than mine.

Thanks for your link to Full Fact, they seem an excellent organisation. However, I think their review of manifesto promises is more a measure of integrity and fact verification (all very important), not of Government competence. To be such there would need to be a weighting on promises, which can vary from the trivial to the vital.

I agree entirely that a charismatic buffoon is worse than a vacillating plodder slowly heading in vaguely right direction. I think the progress on Erasmus is very good (and a manifesto promise fulfilled) but it was the previous shower that were responsible for reentry to the Horizon programme.

Both agreements are progress but overall I think the “reset” is going far, far too slowly, to the detriment of the UK economy and all British citizens. There’s no need to rehash my views on this.

I think that Labour have been disingenuous and indeed untruthful on taxation and on social welfare. If I hear “we were left with a mess” one more time I’ll scream.

I think a foreign policy, including indifference to the Gaza genocide (notwithstanding
recognising Palestine as a state) and arse licking Trump, is weak and appalling.

I think Shabana Mahmood is another one of the “pull up the ladder” gang like the odious Tory pair Patel and Braverman.

I am very disappointed in Yvette Cooper. I think the treatment of the Palestine Action members , especially on remand is shameful. A complete misuse of the terrorism laws.

I think Wes Streeting’s attitude to hospital doctors is no better than that of Jeremy Hunt, who shafted them.

And that’s just off the top f my head. I won’t upset myself with any more ministries.

Labour spin is just as bad as Tory spin. Listen to their ministers bullshitting on the Today programme. They are plug compatible with Tories. There really isn’t that much of a difference. As I wrote here two years ago, Labour would be just as incompetent but in a more caring way. Well I was wrong about the caring bit.

Now today we have Starmer endorsing the Tory mantra of “my career first, my party second and (when I get around to it) the Country third”. Why shouldn’t Burnham have a crack at the leadership?

I’m sure Starmer is a reasonable, albeit indecisive and “keep all of the people happy all of the time” man. However these are not reasonable times and he is not capable of being a leader in these circumstances. He might make an effective number two to someone who has the vision, courage and determination to lead from the front.

Sadly there doesn’t seem to be anybody with those qualities available. So it looks like charisma might win again, with the architect of the Brexit disaster, fag in mouth, pint in hand and a packet of cheese and onion crisps in his pocket, backed by ex-Tory party dross, becoming the next PM.

Thank goodness we’re building in a “Farage clause” into any future EU/UK agreement.

Anyway, that’s what I think :slightly_smiling_face:

BTW, Orwell would hate this gang, he wouldn’t recognise them as a Labour party.

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Well I have liked both of your posts because to me they both have truths in them. I give Billy an extra point as things are getting done albeit at a glacial pace. Whilst they spin, the pages of all the press seem to be painting a picture and forcing the issue of negativity because that’s what the paymasters want.

Say Burnham was elected the super rich elites won’t take long to tell him exactly what they want him to achieve for them.

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And people fall for that, only focusing on the negative and ignoring or failing to see the positive. Including some members on here. Exactly the same thing happened with Tony Blair and his government. He did some stupid things, and that is the only thing people ever talk about, and most have no idea of the achievements of his government, and they were many and put the 17 years of Tory government that followed to shame.

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Me too. I also remember Burnham as Health Secretary being asked a tricky question in the street about something going on in Southampton Health Authority or somewhere and putting it off with ‘I haven’t time at the moment but I will get back to you, I promise.’ Still waiting.

However, I do think it is a bad move for him to be barred from standing if the local party want him to. HQ may well regret that move after the by-election.

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If some other candidate cannot secure the seat then Labour HQ may indeed come to regret the decision. But, as I said, Burnham does have a responsibility to those who elected him Mayor.

Don’t get me wrong - he might well make a fine PM.

Though I am less clear why Mr Scully thinks it is OK for him to persue his personal ambition whereas for other politicians it is not.

And, to be honest, this should all have been discussed with the party and plans laid ages ago as to when and if Mr Burnham can stand for Parliament (another gaff IMO though it is impossible to know what discussions might or might not have taken place).

Meanwhile, with all this bickering, the real and frightening danger of Nigel Farage becoming King is gaining support. A quick glance at the sad affairs across the pond should have most sane people voting for the “anyone but Farage” party.

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That’s the trouble with FPTP though, Farage makes it a three, possibly four horse race and he only needs to be consistently a little ahead for disaster to strike.

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