This event has dominated the media in the last 24 hours. It is claimed that, worldwide, he has more than a billion followers. Yet, for some of us, the organisation that he represented had many defects including trying to hide activities that paid scant regards to basic human rights.
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Quite.
Sheep
I don’t think this is the right moment to denigrate a man who has just died. For what it’s worth I feel that he was an exemplary man and tried his very best to make the world a better place. right until the end. There are not many/any like him in power.
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I think we have only mentioned the organisation not the man
I think he tried to open up the church to more scrutiny which is laudable.
But the right response to any moral member of the Catholic Church, faced with the atrocious record of sexual abuse should be to say “I want no part of this” and to leave.
So I’m definitely ambivalent about his reforms.
I am not religious at all, but I do think Pope Francis was a man who had a conscience and sympathy for human suffering, and was one of the better Popes, both in terms of calling out injustice around the world and also trying to reform the Church. I hope his successor does as much if not more.
My sympathies go to Catholics who will no doubt feel they have lost a guide and a friend.
As for the institution itself yes it has many flaws, but it’s not alone in that. I don’t know enough about the details to comment properly.
However, regarding the sexual abuse, that is not exclusive to the Roman Church - a former schoolfriend of mine was abused in a C of E environment and it led to him becoming an offender himself and going to prison. It was tragic. I don’t know what happened to him after that, it was many years ago.
My instinct is that religion and faith are best left to the individual, but I know that many people find comfort in having an organised religious environment and sharing faith with others.
But sadly as soon as there is an organisation and a hierarchy (in any field) there is potential for malpractice and abuse of power.
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Any position that gives someone power over others is liable to be used by abusers. So teachers, coaches, scout masters, policemen, politicians and yes, ministers of religion (of all colours) may be abusers. A key difference is that the RC church has seen itself as superior to the law, and therefore tried to keep things internal.
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That would surely apply to any member of any organisation where there had been abuse?
It’s probably as uncomfortable for the sharer as for the sharee!
Ergo you have to be pretty convinced it’s true to make it worth doing.
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And who, then. would undertake the necessary steps to rectify those faults? Better to lead from the inside than merely complain on the outside?
True. But I think you could probably argue that in most cases it is individual failure rather than failure at organisational level.
Unfortunately the Catholic church not only failed to stop the abuse at every level within the organisation it frequently protected the abusers and villified the abused
In this case better that every decent human walks away and leaves the organisation to wither.
If that were to happen, hundreds of millions of people would be materially worse off.
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Schisms have happened over smaller differences and failings. Perhaps the “Nice Catholics Only” Church could continue the good works.
I’m afraid this has also been a failing of the CoE.
Institutional system failure in both. Sadly, the publicity of these failings have overwhelmed all the quiet good works being done today.
I agree that absolute control of innocents in positions of power that attract people, all too often men, is a recipe for disaster. I feel that allowing marriage, female priesthood and same sex marriages within the church hierarchy would go a long way towards reform.
Agreed.
Because making the church more like the rest of society would solve its problems?
“If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” (Solzhenitsyn)
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Indeed. I am currently reading Joachim Fest’s biography of that Austrian fellow who caused all the trouble in the 1930s and 40s, and have just got to the point where he took power in 1933.
The description of how people who had opposed him quite strongly up to that point just turned around and “went with the flow” because it seemed futile to do otherwise, is very interesting.
And there are so many parallels with Trump’s America.
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Interesting responses - as usual. Might I make it clear I have nothing against the pope. From what i read on here and have seen elsewhere he was a good man who cared for the poor,the underdogs and the victims of the endless wars that we suffer.
But I have real issues with the church that he lead. I went to catholic schools, both primary and secondary, in the 1950s. The latter was run by Benedictine monks and at least three former members of staff were jailed when found guilty of abuse which occurred long after I left. I now know that abuse was well established when I was there. This totally destroyed my confidence in the church.
No - but allowing priests “normal” access to a loving, sexually consenting relationship probably would reduce their need to foist their desires on vulnerable youngsters.
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