The European Union experiment vs USSR

I’m very interest in the opinions of the people in this forum on the pro’s and con’s of the decision to form the European Union.

I’d like to know how people compare this experiment with both the old USSR experiment and the ongoing American system of separate States vs Federal control.

Do you think the European Union is looking to more resemble the US model (free, independant states that have a choice to accept or deny centralised rule) or look to be more leaning towards the old Russian model of centralised control of all member states, without independant choice)?


You need to be clearer I think.
Do you want to discuss the early origins of today’s EU, starting at the end of WWII with the “Peace in Europe” movement and then a succession of co-operation treaties which eventually led to the Treaty of Rome and the formation of the EEC in 1957? Or do you want to skip over that and the development and strengthening of co-operation since then, and only look at the formation of the EU? Referring to it as an “experiment” suggest you are thinking about its origins, because where we are now 75 years on would be a very long experiment, but on the other hand you do specifically say “the decision to form the EU”, which was the decision taken in 1993. In fact I don’t see how you can meaningfully discuss the formation of the EU and where it is heading without also looking at its history. I think that in order to understand why the EU is where it is today, it is important to take into account the reasons why it was created in the first place, what it has achieved, what problems it has overcome, what problems it has not overcome and also what problems it has created.
Given the very different raisons d’être I am not sure how useful it is to make a comparison with either the USA or the USSR.


Whatever the answer is to the question, there is one giant difference between the EU and both the USSR and the USA, the states that make up the EU can leave any time that they wish, no bloodshed.


I guess what I’m looking to discuss is how people feel about where it is today, and where they think it is moving towards.

Will it become more authoritarian in nature and policies, or will each country, or nation-state, maintain it’s independence to decide their own futures and cultural norms?


I’m very happy to hear confirmation of that. I think it compares well with the differences between the Christian and Islamic religions. One allows the choice of leaving while the other does not (officially anyway).

I believe it’s the same in the US - any state can separate from the union (or join with another state) if the people decide to. Also, each state can refuse to follow a federal order if it is found to be contrary to the Constitution, which sounds reasonable to expect in a free country.


You seem to be envisaging the EU as a separate entity from its member states but I do not know why you see it like that. The EU project is its member states. An EU decision, is a decision made by member states. Of course there has to be compromise as is always the case when taking joint decisions. But as regards interfering in the cultural norms of other states, well the EU motto is Unie dans la Diversité or United in Diversity. The EU chose to make this explicit statement that member states respect and value their cultural diversity. I do not see why this would change in the forseeable future, do you?

As for deciding their own futures, well that is very vague. But I think the war has made most member states feel the world will be a safer and more stable place if EU member states stick together right now


You may have heard of the US civil war/war of secession which happened precisely to stop states leaving the union.


I think you’d find this interesting… European Coal and Steel Community - Wikipedia

Do you know how the EU functions?

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John, did I read that correctly … “…based on the principle of supranationalism” ???

Wouldn’t that be considered ‘supra-fascist’ in today’s western woke ideology? LOL


No, I can’t begin to pretend that I know how the EU functions.

All I know is people were told that it would lessen the chances of future wars between european countries, which I fully agree it would, but didn’t say anything about eventual moves toward a centralised control that would resemble anything like the USSR.

I’m not saying that’s where we are today, but it seems to me that’s what we’re headed towards if we’re not very careful.


Well if that’s the reality of the situation in the US, I don’t find that very ‘free’, do you? Do you think that lack of freedom is a good, or a bad idea - and why?


Try reading history books, starting with someone like Barbara Tuchman, then when you have a grasp of what happens when, you can maybe move onto someone like Eric Hobsbawm. Neither assumes prior knowledge so you may find answers to your various questions there.
No doubt others, better educated than I, may have other recommendations. Chomsky has plenty of interesting things to say.
There’s no point recommending various other authors because as you say yourself you are not expert.

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Why are so determined to liken the EU to the USSR?
The EU is a union of equals where each member state has its own government and its own political parties.
The USSR was (I believe, but I am no expert) essentially governed by the Communist Party.

Don’t mind me asking, are you an AI, rather than human? Your responses to data are in the form of questions rather than understanding.


Yes, I second that, but maybe she / he may find the matter a bit daunting…
@KwakeCanuckInFrance you seem passionate for the USA why not start looking into the history of the Americas, why setters were sent and how at first many didn’t survive. The practical genocide of the local indigenous populations. Look into the economics at the time in France and Spain. Also how copper plated Royal naval warships changed the course of history against the French and Spanish fleets during the sugar and slave trade battles on the high seas. If battles and warfare is interesting to you, look into how the free world at the time pretty much sponsored piracy and private armies as long as it was for the right cause of the nation’s economy and prestige. Whilst poor people in the countries mentioned were being prosecuted and badly treated for poaching a rabbit to feed their families.
Plenty of stuff on YouTube.

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I’m just asking opinions to where people in this forum think the EU is headed in the next 5 to 10 years at all and if anyone thinks it could go in a direction we’ve already seen before (USSR or USA).

I guess I was expecting a ‘I’m not sure but xyz’ or ‘It looks to me to be heading in xyz direction because’, or something like that…

But I guess the question is a sensitive one because I don’t think anyone answered it yet…I’ll have to scroll back up to check. If it ends up being something people here prefer not to opine about, I can accept that.


Unlikely for all sorts of reasons.

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To repeat, I do not see the tiniest remotest possibility of the EU becoming a communist state.
I see no reason why it would become more like the USA. The EU is not a system of government, it is essentially about joint projects. What projects it prioritizes in 5 or 10 years time will depend on what is happening in the world in 5 or 10 years time which is hard to predict right now, What is China going to do? What conflicts will there be? Will Ukraine have become an EU member state, what other countries will have joined or left? But I imagine that generally the EU will continue to be concerned about climate change, immigration, inequality, social injustice, and that it will continue to support high level research, work for peace etc as it does now.


Good response, sandcastle.