Thanks guys....I think I need to clarify...I dont actually dislike France...I dont want to live there...but I am not suffering unduly...and live in one of the prettiest places you could ever find...my consternation is often cultural and I know, I know..each country is different...but customer services...the thing with guarantees etc..maybe its just that in the UK I have no problem in dealing with inefficiency/bad service...and usually come out on top...! my frustration is for instance being given a guarantee that apparently mean nothing....if Ive got to sue...why bother? the thing with the Notaire....our septic tank didnt comply...way too small for the house and leaking...he knew this...it was in the info he had..and he didnt share this with us...when we complained...he actually said...it was for me to know, not you...! I suggested in that case he might like to pay for the replacement...and he actually threw his toys out of the pram...bit temper tantrum...stamping feet etc...was so underwhelmed by this show of unprofessional behaviour....I did wonder what kind of place I had moved to...anyway....have enjoyed the debates...but like you all..have spent way too much time on this....
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Brian, I'd love to be able to tell you that I was that good! Far, very far from it, I was nearing the end of teacher training and my maîtrise and my then German girlfriend who was sooo German and sooo serious about our future together had mapped everything out for me and gave me all the relevant info told me, yes told me I had to get a move on and learn German (I'd only just finished my French and Italian degree, embarked on the double diploma PGCE and maîtrise, which wasn't easy juggling and then she wanted me to (told me I must) suddenly become fluent, very very fluent in German... the relationship went a little downhill from there on and here I am years later in France, where I wanted speaking a language I wanted to speak with a partner who listend to what I'd like to do rather than telling me what I must do! Oh what's my rough level of german... ich nehme ein pils bitter and I appologise for any mistakes in tha but that's about as far as it gets. Although I will have a crack at it one day, after spanish that is. But that's after the kids have grown a bit nd I get a bit more spare time, youngest's just thrown up all over his bed, he said he didn't feel to good earlier but still had his biberon no problem, but it didn't stay down for long! A at A level in languages - good going, and a C is still good and a pass, especially in languages where As are often thought of as out of reach. Going back to the original point, it's a shame more people don't have a little more knowledge of living and working in other eu countries before knocking France,in my limited experience, France is far closer to the UK standards and practices, especially north of the Loire, than so many others. One reason I settled for France not Italy was just that, you think it's daft having to go to the prefecture for your carte grise here, in italy you have to go to the notaire to do it, and pay his fees!!!
Tschüß
No, you are not rude at all, perhaps more to the point but I laboured it a bit. Yes, all countries have good and bad points and it is always most noticeable that it is the bad ones people remember rather than the good. Ironic, isn't it?
Wow Andrew, Goethe Deutsch ist unheimlich schwer... During my doctoral research and the fellowship that followed I was in a Berlin based team although at Cambridge really. My German was already fluent, plus I had to learn Spanish at a rate of knots and start to learn Quechua, so I was orally examined at that level and it near on foxed me. Many Germans would not pass! I assure you I can think more easily in German than in English or any other language but mensches Kind, keines Wegs... I would never have passed a written although I have read Goethe, Kant, Hegel and more in the original form. So wise move probably. Far stiffer than here for everyone's interest. I do have O and A level German though, my oral examiner for O could not understand me, apologised and left because I was too fluent (honest) and I finished the A level written examine in under half the time walked out and have the A grade A level to prove it. I also have a grade C in French at A level which is a pass and a bit only after all. When I tried to find a job here when I was with my first OH (Corsican) I was then considered over qualified with the PhD but the O and A level French were respected in 1973. Times have changed and despite the EQF stuff, expectations here in Europe as well. They all expect better, by which they mean higher marks/grades rather than what better used to mean.
You've made my replies above look rather rude with your politeness Brian, Carol I usually spend my time on this site chatting and helping people who need advice from those of us who have been here years and are integrated, fluent etc. I'm not used to argueing about which country is better - that doesn't seem to be the point of a network called survive france - my replies above are not meant to be rude, just based on my experiences and knowledge of France and other countries, which all have their good and bad points, some more than others ;-)
Carol, sympathy from me as well. I am the son of a builder, which is what he expected me to be. My father and his partner were as straight as a die. As a youth I worked with them and have always done my own work since unless I cannot. So it gives me an insight into what is good, bad, tawdry, etc. There are good and bad builders everywhere. I have not experienced an exploit the foreigners thing here one bit, indeed most artisans seem to have tariffs they (too rigidly) stick to. When I need I have, yep, a Welsh builder who has been here for many years. He looks at some work and shakes his head in disbelief. Then there are guys who have knocked on our door who tell us something needs to be done which he has noticed from the road that I then listen to. Usually total crap, but that does not tell me they are not good builders, simply that they are people looking for work.
Surveyors, well the UK is unique in it being a profession. Take Germany, they have inspectors who look at sites, buildings, finished work and all, but get one of them to go through your place item by item and they'll pass. Electricians look at those installations, then plumbers, etc. Norway the same, nearly bought a house there once, glad I did not but that was not the house... Asked for a survey at the lawyer's office and he looked blank and and asked 'what'? Surveyors there measure stuff... Perhaps the world should catch up with UK standards on that one, but OK that does not help today. Yes, as Andrew says, a notaire is like an English notary who draws up legal documents but is not a lawyer, they know very little law and do not need to because most of what they do is standardised... To sue, if you can afford the lawyer in the UK you have a chance but then if the person/company you are suing has better you are wasting more money. Been there, not with a house but on a publication matter and lost without a hope in the world although the work that was stolen was actually mine!
Oh and just to add some facts to that - because I research before doing things, when I had a german girlfriend although I have a masters degree in french and a pgce, it wasn't enough to teach there plus they insisted i sat the goethe german language exam and reached a specific fluent level, In italy, the italian i trained with still can't get a permanent post even though she can in the UK - each country is different, sometimes very different, that's often what makes the country exiting and an adventure, hasn't been your case, I understand that but I really have had a bit much of the "why can't I buy fish and chips and get good pint of best to drink while I'm reading my english newspaper" attitude, it's France after all ;-)
I feel for you and your misfortune Carol but maintain that there are as many cowboy builders in teh UK as in France - you sere unlucky. Surveyors are increasing - no they are not appart from amongst british buyers - the profession doesn't even exist in France or have a professional body. I've been here a number of years in various jobs bought and sold a number of houses, nearly always from and to French people and am happily settled with French OH and our kids. Fortunately I've never come across your world here, but there again this is the only anglophone contact I have here in France because all friends and family are French. Perhaps I'm not aware of a whole raft of "let's screw the brits and other foreigners" people (although I have heard some stories, usually about the unwary who charge in thinking everything works as it does in the UK. I think we realise that you don't want to live in my world although you've obviously never experienced the France I live in from the inside, and I don't want to live in yours - that's fine, we're all individuals with different aspirations ;-)
so you get a guarantee...which we had for the roof...still had a few years left to run...when the water poured into our lounge..literally all over the electrics...and we went to him..we were told it wasnt his problem...we went to 4 roofing experts...got reports written and presented them to him... once again, shrug, pfft..pout...if you dont like it...sue me....is that the way you think it should work Andrew?
We paid a lot for the house...over the odds..which was our choice...after a full survey..which incidentally..becoming more common in France...and we have the same problem again...ok you paid me a pile of money...I didnt do my job..so sue me... not sure I want to live in your world Andrew...
but I dont expect them to open 20 minutes late and offer no apology...simples...good manners and an ability to get up in the morning!
As Brian said James, neither of us wants any country to fall, far from it ;-)
Must get on
Bonne continuation à tous !
Personally James, I want nowhere to collapse. Is the history of the 1920s not enough, let alone what happened in its wake for the people who are seeing this as a competition of some bizarre kind? Yes, most countries are similar, the point Andrew and I are making with Carol this morning, but there are people who just can or will not see that.
But we do manage to hide it in the UK too... that is perhaps the problem there and rural poverty is as grinding as here. I was close enough to the Fenlands to have seen some eye watering examples very often. Villages where nobody had work and everything worth a bean collected by the 'tally man', no functioning toilets and bathrooms in Victorian and older houses that should have been bulldozed long ago. Again, far too similar to draw a line between.
keep your sue everyone culture, a notaire isn't a solicitor, he's there to handle the legal transfer not advise you. no one in France uses surveyors, the profession doesn't exist here apart from some UK ones who have relocated or French who have jumped on the brit bandwagon to make money. bought 5 times here and never had a survey done - that's teh way it works ;-)
plenty of villages in Cornwall have no village shop or post office, if they do they're not open until 7pm. many villages have 60% plus second home ownership and are dead in winter. Perpignan, yes it's a city but it's the south, the deep deep deep south, try Montpellier ;-) yes they were closed at lunchtime too, but often open later. What on earth is your problem with places being closed at lunchtime anyway - it's completely normal here, you're the foreigner who thinks it isn't!!!
The UK has further to fall to begin with, so if it goes the bang will hit large parts of Europe and elsewhere too...
will be interesting to see which falls further eh?
Having worked for RNIB for years I did have experience of the Rowntree and Peabody trusts...I am aware of the shocking sink estates in the UK....and because of the overcrowding I think its more explosive...apart from areas around the big cities. in France.... obviously Paris especially and Marseille...where the poverty is also bone grinding...a lot of French poverty is hidden...because of the large areas of countryside, much of it goes un noticed...much harder to hide in the UK...we all live too closely together...