The UK Supreme Court Ruling on Women

[Porridge]

@Earthdave

That does not at all ‘lead logically’. If I told you I was gay and wanted to be recognized as such, would you consider that I had a mental disorder?

Dave, you really need to start reading replies! I’ve already answered that: The UK Supreme Court Ruling on Women - #188 by Porridge

@Earthdave

Would you agree that if you transitioned yourself to the other gender, went through surgery and ‘lived’ as that gender in the world for 20 years, it would be reasonable to expect to be referred to by correct pronouns?

I personally would refer to Dave as Dave and Davina as Davina. You’ve identified one of the absurdities of trans ideology: that my telling you my pronouns is in some way helpful. The only pronoun I need when I talk to Dave is “you”.

@Earthdave

Which side of history do you want to be on? … do you want to have to say, “I mocked [transgender idology] as a cult and focused on a few children getting surgery or restroom discomfort to dismiss the wishes of a whole population”?

No-one here is mocking anyone, apart perhaps from you. The debate has - until now, at least - been reasoned and courteous.

There is, however, no “right side of history” (unless you think that America, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan are all continuously improving!).

Interesting, though, that you refer to transgender idology as a “cult”, given cults usually tolerate no dissent or discussion, are based on authority rather than logic …

@Earthdave

I think part of the problem is that we consider this surgery as ‘not medically necessary’.

What many people who question trans ideology would say is that, the use of endocrinological and/or surgical interventions is based on almost no science and no long-term studies (you’d know I’ve mentioned this before if you’d read the thread carefully). We’ve just gone ahead and followed the opinions of those with the loudest voices: the Tavistock Clinic experience shows that.

At the moment, at least in the US, there is something of a reversal, with the case of Fox Varian.

The number of children undergoing surgery is a red herring. If something is wrong, it’s wrong irrespective of how many victims it creates. It isn’t only surgery that is the problem.

@kirsteastevenson

the few dozen trans kids on puberty blockers

Surely you’re aware that puberty blockers have been banned in much of Europe (thanks to people who campaigned against them, of course)? So of course their use is being reduced.

@Earthdave

@Ancient_Mariner

One source of difficulty often comes when the individual looks like a man, moves like a man, talks like a man but wears women’s clothing.

First, so you know personally anyone who really fits all these criteria?

The three people I know all fit that description. One is an ex-miner; one is a lecturer; and one, the one I know best, is over 6 feet tall and built for rugby rather than ballet. (He has lovely hair, mind you.)

This last one could be described as a Covid transitioner. He is one of the many people who developed MH problems in lockdown (in his case, his problems were exacerbated, especially by the unhelpful websites he visited).

Sorry that has been so long.

But since you like questions, @Earthdave or anyone else who holds the view, here’s for you.

How do you know that gender incongruence isn’t a mental disorder ?

[Ancient_Mariner]

@Porridge

The three people I know all fit that description. One is an ex-miner; one is a lecturer; and one, the one I know best, is over 6 feet tall and built for rugby rather than ballet. (He has lovely hair, mind you.)

@Earthdave my experience of trans women fits the pattern I described, which is why I described it that way. Some have required a second glance (there’s something not right about that woman - ah, they’re a man) while others it’s immediately obvious. Maybe I notice these things more than some, because even the ladyboys in Bangkok, when they were out together and not in the role, looked obviously like men dressing as (overly sexual) women.

Some years back I met a friend who was the first person I knew to transition out with a group of their friends, and it was immediately obvious who were women and who was transitioning.

[TFJWM]

@Ancient_Mariner

and it was immediately obvious who were women and who was transitioning.

Did you misspeak here?

[Ancient_Mariner]

Not that I’m aware of. To be clear, some had obviously been born female and some were born male and were transitioning.

[TFJWM]

@Ancient_Mariner

were born male and were transitioning.

So not women?

[Roger_Lapin]

@DrMarkH

damn fine beer…

And don’t forget Chartreuse…

[Porridge]

Sadly brief report of Hilary Cass’s recent thoughtful interview.

https://www.itv.com/news/2026-02-15/expert-who-led-gender-healthcare-review-says-children-have-been-weaponised

[Porridge]

Perhaps the tide is beginning to turn, and some medical research may belatedly begin.

Following the pausing of the puberty blocker trial, 24 consultant psychiatrists write to The Times and The Sunday Times. They urge the government and research community to pursue the tracing and follow-up study of children and young people who have already passed through the Gender Identity Development Service at the Tavistock Clinic.
The psychiatrists are alarmed that NHS adult clinics have refused to co-operate with the follow-up study and emphasise that learning from this cohort of children and young people should now be the priority.

[Porridge]

A worrying long-term study in Finland (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.70533) suggests that psychiatric problems of under-23s who undergo surgical gender reassignment increase post-operation.

[Corona]

Ah yes, buyers remorse

[Porridge]

Yes, really sad that they’re let down by the medical profession.

[billybutcher]

@Porridge

A worrying long-term study in Finland (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.70533) suggests that psychiatric problems of under-23s who undergo surgical gender reassignment increase post-operation.

To be fair it is a group with quite a high chance of psychological problems in the first place (I’ll leave you to decide whether that is due to, or causing the gender dysphoria).

@Corona

Ah yes, buyers remorse

That seems unnecessarily dismissive of genuine problems.

[Porridge]

Yes. I’m quite sure that no child is capable of making an informed choice between the pain of being gender dysphoric and the pain of being unable to have children.