That’s an advertorial for China, “China wants to resolve disputes peacefully” 
, not serious comment IMO Porridge. It doesn’t actually say Russia will “loose” either, it says stalemate. Which is probably true. So we spend billions propping up Ukraine in a no win war while China, a much more serious enemy than Russia IMO, is free to plot and manoeuvre.
The bottom line for me is our leaders haven’t a clue what’s going on, and haven’t for decades.
You may have a point regarding the eastern territories which were in revolt before the invasion, and the Crimea which was not Ukrainian at all before Kruschev (who was part Ukrainian or related) gave it away.
But at the very least any agreement should be on the basis of free referendums in those territories with international supervision and guaranteed NATO membership for the remainder. Can’t see the Russians agreeing to that without being convinced of the impossibility of complete victory, but it is absolutely necessary to protect Ukraine from later Russian adventures. Their word is not enough, only a strong NATO will deter them.
The main problem is that Putin does not seem very bright. With such a mighty empire, territory wise, he had no need to attack Ukraine and the very thing he feared, and sought to avoid, expansion of NATO, has come about solely because of his stupidity.
The case for talking though is exampled by the gallant Finns in 1939 after giving the Russians a bloody nose, finally ceded territory with the result of 80 odd years of wealthy independance. Till now that is and Putin’s stupid blunder.
Disagree John, one of Putin’s reasons for invading Ukraine was his perception of the creeping influence of NATO. In the event his actions have had the reverse effect of what he intended as previously neutral Scandinavian nations have been spooked into joining NATO. Unfortunately he’s now too far in to be able to willingly back down without massive loss of face and if one follows his (seriously flawed reasoning) the only way to resolve NATO ‘creep’ would be to attack more countries - which would be insane. So if the West continues to provide adequate military support, Putin will be in a bit of a pickle (as they used to say in Lancashire)
I don’t think that was a perception Mark.
1990
2022
Once again I’m probably expecting too much from our leaders, but did none of them think that such a rapid expansion of NATO would eventually trigger a reaction? The bloody US in particular, nothing is thought through. No less than Wall St., the whole Country is run quarter by quarter by whatever individual happens to be in the White House. Back in the day there was an oppertunity to bring Russia into the NATO tent, but it was squandered.
Remember if the US had its way (maybe Germany too) we’d have Turkey in the EU One can appreciate why the rest of the World is getting fed up with the US deciding how things should be.
Next stop… 
It looks like Russia may be planning to be a little more pro-active dissuading assistance for Ukrain.
Don’t necessarily disagree with your historical accont, though think it would benefit by being balanced by the collapse of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries wanting to escape from half a century of Russian domination - they were puppet states, and now they’re not. And of course, they were not obliged to join NATO, but felt the need to be protected from future Russian actions.
However, whatever the previous narrative, today we are where we are, and I don’t believe that you nor anyone else really believes that Putin would be happy with just the bits of the Ukraine that he’s already occupied. He needs to go much further and this needs to be thwarted.
I agree.
I agree again Mark. But I like to look at the future based on the past. The so called leaders that got us into this mess are not IMO the ones, or at least the continuing breed, to get us out of it. The current bunch are not any better than the last bunch. So, when the current bunch talk about Russian expansionism all of a sudden (there was nothing about that two years ago) I don’t believe them 
I think they are retrofitting a scenario as to why they have got us to where we are.
It’s not so much me whinging about past failures as not wating to get fooled again, as Pete Townshend would say. In fact maybe that song infected me at an early age with the contempt I have for most World “leaders” 
The fact that they get it wrong all the time and never hold themselves accountable is a source of great annoyance to me. If a CEO acted like that they’d be out in jiz time, but leaders handling far more serious matters just get to muddle on. This IMO is the grave problem with democracy, accountability and measuring competence.
I don’t know where it will end but it seems that Ukraine will be able to fight on a little longer
Now perhaps this will make the EU put more pressure on Hungary to lift its veto on sequestering Russian assets to help Ukraine?
