The recent death of a friend - and the ensuing bureaucratic mess - has focused my mind a bit on our own paperwork.
My husband’s understanding of written French is almost non-existent. And he is terrible at administrative stuff.
So - apart from nagging him to improve his French obviously- I’m trying to think of simple steps I could take to reduce the administrative burden on him should I suddenly die or become incapacitated.
For some reason our van is in my name only. I should put it in both names, right?
Are there any good reasons not to do this, that I haven’t thought of?
Can you think of anything else I could do? I’ve already changed our bank accounts to “Monsieur ou Madame”.
If you do Facebook, it’s probably worth joining some of the specialist groups like Strictly Legal France, Strictly Fiscal France and Registering Vehicles in France.
My understanding is that having the vehicle in joint names doesn’t really make any difference and you still need to go through roughly the same process but one of those groups will tell you for sure.
Make a Big Book Of Logins & Passwords containing every User Name, Password, Trusted 2FA Device and Account Recovery Key for every website or app you use.
Emails, banks utility companies, shops, music and TV streaming subscriptions etc.
The best thing you could do (which I have yet to do of course!) is make sure your death instructions are clear…funeral, who needs to be told, and what you want to happen with your online life.
Then prepare an admin aide. If anything like my partner he won’t know where my will is, where all the tax papers are, names and addresses of my family and friends, etc etc. Anything really as I do it all. There are handy guides for who to inform and so on, but the personal stuff will be harder.
I would avoid having a physical book - too easy to steal, and too easy to lose - but the information you’re talking about is vital.
We’re in the same position (except that Mme’s French is fluent). I do everything.
My plan is:
make a list as you suggest
add to each entry an indication of whether it’s a joint account, joint and several (whatever the French version is of that) or sole name
also describe the logging-in process
have a joint 2FA device where possible
Then
5. make sure she practises logging on regularly
6. keep the list up-to-date
I intend to keep the list in a document on a ProtonDrive account we will have for the sole purpose of keeping this information, with a username and password that is easy to remember and which could be noted down in several places.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, but I can’t see any holes in it - but others may spot what I haven’t.
Having been through the loss of my husband suddenly here it can become overwhelming by the speed at which things happen. It might be a good idea to leave as much info in French naturally with a Notaire that you would trust to oversee the succession process which usually has to happen within four months of the death and the property and belongings of the deceased/family are taken into account. Our family car was in OH name on the carte grise because when it was ordered from the dealership in town, the finance side was inhis name so I had to re-apply for a new carte grise in my name and pay for it (not a lot) with permission from our two children who are also heirs of everything of value and the same when I wanted to trade it in for another vehicle, they had to write attestations agreeing to that. If you have children from the marriage or children of the deceased, you have to take into account they are automatically heirs and have to be included in decisions regarding property etc. If you have made “en tontine” or donation entre époux already, best to go with the same Notaire and leave the info with them which they can access easily. Bank accounts should be in title of “OU” not just one person as it will be frozen at death unless it is in OU when it carries on as normal. A guide for the surviving spouse as to where all important papers are kept would be good plus info of how they come into play especially the Impôts stuff and the property tax(es). Also a list of your funeral wishes unless you arenot bothered and let the survivor decide. The lack of language skill can be a hinderance especially for the elderly so maybe a few phrases written out so they can show people what they need.
One thing I would ask is, do you, or your spouse have children who are not in common? If so this is a complicating factor and I have realised, as a very new veuf, that if I wanted to sell up and go back to Blighty, I couldn’t. Not if I wanted to buy somewhere to live anyway. Simply because I would only get half of the value of my property to keep for myself.
A real problem for those who think of ‘going back’ if left alone.
Whose name is on the car carte grise may matter too. I only say this because my trusty neighbour helper breathed a sigh of relief when she discovered that we had never given it a thought when registering them in my name. But if I had gone first, yet one more problem to sort out.
Briefly though, my advice is what I did years ago. Have a file marked DEATH in a prominent well known position with details of all who have to be informed and make sure you have a trusted local who could help the survivor through all the documentation.
Bank accounts should be in title of “OU” not just one person as it will be frozen at death unless it is in OU when it carries on as normal.
Yes, we had individual savings accounts and Fran’s was frozen on her death. The way round part of this is to have the funeral directors only bill in the deceased’s name. That way it can be presented to the bank as a debt of the deceased and will be paid from that account directly. I am hoping to see if it works with the headstone etc this evening.
Good point about believing you can just sell up and move David. Most decent kids who are also heirs would not stop the surviving parent from doing so if they wished and in their best interest but there are some nasty relatives who come crawling out of the woodwork at the time of death and who have a genuine claim although they cannot force the survivor out of the property if they are joint owners from purchase. My children were and still are wonderful to me, no help is too much and they know that eventually they will benefit anyway so never had any cause to stop me selling up and moving to a new home but others might see it as a way of getting easy cash quickly.
Thanks JohnH - and to everyone else for some great ideas. I particularly like the one about having a file marked Death. That’ll focus his mind!
I think it would definitely be worth putting the van in both names. Granted, he would still have to go throught the malarkey of getting my name removed from the Carte Grise at some point. But in the meantime, he could continue driving the vehicle. We live in the city centre and it’s parked in the street so it’s important that he be able to move it.
I do try to involve him now in any paperwork. So that he wouldn’t be completely at sea if I suddenly weren’t around. But honestly, it’s like pulling teeth.
I suggested a physical book as not everyone is as IT savvy as you are. The solution needs to be tailored to the skill set of the person it’s intended for.
No kids, David.
But that is a very good point for anyone who does have them. And not just in the case of death apparently. My neighbour’s Dad has dementia and has gone into a care home. The daughters from his first marriage - who have gone to court to get power of attorney because he had started wandering around the neighbourhood, completely confused and was also constantly getting scammed - want to sell his house to pay for the care home fees. But they need the permission of the kids from his second marriage. Who may or may not give it.
A tontine is a house or business purchased by a group of people and as individual members of the group die their share goes to the others, and so on till the last man (or woman) left standing becomes the sole owner
Your query made me check where I first encountered the term some thirty years ago; pleased to see that the excellent Cleveland Tontine resto on the A19 is still in business https://www.theclevelandtontine.com/
The Credit Agricole gave me a very useful guide when I went in there a couple of days after the death to inform them and give them a death certificate (you get at least a dozen copies all stamped by the mairie where the defunct died and it was registered)
There are useful guides around, such as this. And I used ro have a wonderful booklet from Age Concern which one fills in with everything necessary.
The most common is a clause put in the sale contract of a property, particularly if not married or with children from other relationship. If either party dies the property passes directly to the other as if they had never existed. And bypasses french forced heirship rules so none of the children can make a claim.
It was/still is a contract drawn up by the purchasers of a property in joint names prior TO THE FINAL ACTE being signed and valid from that date. Basically to protect the survivor when death comes knocking at the door from being forced out by heirs. You can’t use this any other time apart from the moment you buy the property. I think it is still in use, I havn’t heard anything different. We had Donation Entre Epoux which protects the survivor as well!