Two cheeks of the same arse, as Galloway pithily put it

As I see it a labour win will just mean that very, very nasty and incompetent ministers will be replaced by decent, but potentially no more competent individuals. Not a bad thing, but these people are skilled in politics, not actually getting things done or fixing things (as I think @Ancient_Mariner pointed with his corporate promotion comparison)

More than rearranging the deckchairs is required.

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Envy is a terrible thing and it simply oozed from that article.

I think it’s quite difficult to say that Starmer has never delivered anything given his previous role in the CPS and his more recent history in utterly reshaping the Labour party, much to the chagrin of the purists who still think the answer lies with magic Grandpa.

The likes of Chakrabortty would much rather have socialist purity than make any compromise to achieve the power that’s necessary to actually change anything.

It’s not realistic to expect a solution to every legacy of the last 14 years but I would hope that we’ll at least have policy making based on a modicum of compassion rather than systematic cruelty.


I think there’s more likely to be a degree of the genuine empathy with the electorate of the sort that has been totally lacking for too many years.

Hopefully, also far fewer silly plastic flags on stages and absurd ideological posturing, instead let’s have more real world stuff.

Nevertheless, whatever the outcome, glad I’m no longer UK resident…


Starmer is the leader, not the deliverer. His job is to create and communicate the vision, set the milestones and drive the execution. He hasn’t done any of that yet. I haven’t a clue what his vision is, does anyone? it’s all waffle. The team he has under him has no track record of execution and I wouldn’t have hired any of them as a first line manger let alone as an executive. Rachel Reeves hands are tied by the shit the UK finances are in, Has Yvette Cooper got the cojones to fillet the dross in the Home Office? I like her, I hope so, but time will tell. I think Lammy is a light weight. Wes Streeting, nice guy but what does he know about the NHS? Cost cutting is easy (in the public and private sector) as that bastard Hunt proved in Health. Rebuilding is terribly difficult. Hilary Benn will be good for NI, he’s a good bloke. But, as I say, the shadow cabinet would not fill one with confidence.

I’m all for kicking the nasty Tories out, but based on what we’ve heard so far Labour will be just as incompetent, but in a more caring way :slightly_smiling_face:

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With you in spirit but not sure I agree with the conclusion. I am really not keen on either and wonder if a tactical LD vote might produce a coalition. Of course that only works if we get the best of both, but life isn’t always like that.

I can never remember a time when I was so undecided about voting. Maybe, after so many years of no democracy at all, I am out of practice. :thinking:

I’d avoid trying to second guess things too much - anyway it’s not at all clear the LibDems will welcome a coalition, they are still smarting from 2010-2015

I’d simply say:

If you support the Tories or Reform then please vote for those parties if you wish.

If your constituency does not have a Tory MP then by all means vote with you conscience but if it was close you might consider lending your support to the party most likely to take the seat, even if that is not the party that you support - can’t be too careful after all.

If you currently have a Tory MP then please  vote for the non-Tory candidate most likely to take the seat, even if they do not represent the party of your first choice.

While I don’t agree with your pessimism, at the end of the day if that’s all that’s on offer then I’ll take it. At least there’s a chance that the least privileged might get some benefit out of it rather than suffering to help those with the most get even more.


Oh I agree. It is time for a change, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Every election is an exercise in damage limitation, of course, but your thread title just makes me think of despair, and I don’t agree with the premise.

Exactly. Politics may be driven by idealism, and I’d always hope that was the case, but idealism won’t win an election.

We’ll never despair my Oatmeal pal (after all it’s a sin) :slightly_smiling_face: But as one gets on and has seen so much of all the false promises before, a certain degree of cynicism does creep in.


I’m a big fan of Hilary Benn, and believe that he will make a great PM in due course. He demonstrated that potential most admirably during the Brexit madness.

At the other end of the ability spectrum, I expect that Boris will be looking for an opportunity to ‘save the country’ and I anticipate he will test the waters soon. I trust that he sinks, preferably without leaving a trace.

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Just watched the BBC Magnificent Seven election debate. The two cheeks analogy was driven home hard and fast by Mordaunt and Rayner. Both parties are obsessed with one another, doing the right thing is irrelevant. Of the bunch, the only one I’d vote for is Stephen Flynn of the SNP. Though the Greens and Plaid Cymru were also passionate. The LibDems IMHO can take a hike after their tuition fees betrayal. Of all people Farage spoke the truth when he said the system is broken.

Just what Russia, Iran and China want. Farage is their poster boy, along with the Old Orange One.

Democracy is not broken but it is under threat. Say it often enough and there are plenty who will believe.


Disappointing that anyone is taken in by the Farage grift. As ever, he stands at the side, or even in the middle, throwing rocks but he doesn’t have any actual solutions. When he did have a position when he could do something, as an MEP, he simply didn’t turn up much of the time.


True, but as a rock thrower he’s sublime. He knows exactly when to stick his oar in and when to not. I enjoyed it last night when Stephen Flynn dismissed him as a snake oil salesman.

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I see the Poundland Rod Stewart, Charlie Mullins is cozying up to Farage.

Given Mullins was an arch Remainer and wanted the unvaxed put into camps during the Wuhan Flu epidemic, this isn’t going to sit well with folks currently planning to vote REFORM.

I think that boat sailed in 2016…

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Arse. Bloody iOS autocorrect. I’m sure I typed Reform.

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Even autocorrect is getting in on fake news!

I saw a photo of him. Thought Fabricant was looking different.

I would never trust a man who spent that much time on his hair.