Hello Mark, I can only say what happened to me, and what I have been told by my insurance, the DVLA, and the French licence authority. I held a clean UK licence and have never had any fines.
Hello John, When my husband was 70, a renewal notice was sent to our old address in the UK. Our neighbor sent it to us, quite clearly on the paperwork it stated that we would be breaking the law to use a UK address to get the new licence if we were not living there. It also said that if we did use a UK address, for example, my sisters address, and we were found out, we faced a fine of £2,000 and a possible jail sentence.
I know quite a number of expats who have done that, and we have talked about it, but they have buried their head in the sand and continued to use their UK licence! I like to comply with the law, at least I am not now worrying about having the correct licence.
Like I have already said, I would rather share my experience, not to confuse people, because what I have said, actually happened to me. I would like to know if anyone out there has had a problem with using a UK licence. I have read something on this site from a couple who travel to the UK and back. After getting a ticket for speeding, the police told them they must get a French licence, they even checked at a later date, to see if they complied. What more can we say, it cost nothing to ask, and to be sure that you are not breaking the law!
Maureen, your opening statement "...if you have a UK license, and live here in France, you must change it for a French license" is not true at all! This is a topic that pops up every now & again & I'm surprised how many people will take the word of "man in bar" over research.
The French Government (those under whose rules we live) tell us on their website http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F1757.xhtml
"Les permis de conduire délivrés par les autres pays de l'Espace économique européen (EEE) sont reconnus en France. La personne qui réside en France, titulaire d'un permis de conduire obtenu dans un autre pays européen, peut circuler avec. Elle doit toutefois respecter certaines conditions. Elle peut demander l'échange de son permis national contre un permis français. Mais ce n'est pas une obligation, sauf exception."
There are exceptions of course. One of which is that if points have been deducted you are required to change so that this can be done & a record held.
It is not possible to hold two EU licenses either!
Hello Brian, I can assure you that I had a nightmare time getting my licence, I have copies of e mails between myself and the DVLA in the UK. I could not understand what was going on. I first took all my paperwork to the town hall where I live, they said everything was in order. The check list they gave me asked for Liveret de family, I explained that we did not have this, just a birth certificate. They would not accept my original birth certificate I had to get a new copy showing issue less than three months old from the date of issue.
The DVLA gave me a paper that translated my licence, again the French system would not accept this, they said my licence had to be translated by an approved translator. I had to get the certificate of entitlement from the DVLA. my paperwork went back and forth over the last 18 months. Each time I sent it back, it took 3 months to get a reply. I even went with my paperwork, to Marseilles, I waited to ask them if they were happy with my dossier. They said they were, but I had to send it to an address that received licence applications, they could not take it from me.
DVLA even told me that the French could use the UK system to check if I had any penalties on my licence. After the French agency told me my paperwork was ok, I sent it too them, and again they rejected it, asking for more information! I asked the DVLA if I could get an international licence with them, they said no, because I had declaired that I was now living in France.
I was concerned, because everything the French agency asked for I gave them, and every time it was rejected. The lady who translated my licence, she was very supportive, even she could not believe what was happening, and she is French. I just want people to know that they must have a French licence if they have lived here for more than a year. I am with MAAF for my insurance, and they have told me that my insurance would be void if I chose to continue using my UK licence. I have been with MAAf for 11 years. I have been driving since I was 18 years old, and lucky enough to have never had any fines for speeding or for anything else, I have a clean licence. I would rather tell my story, so that people can make sure that if they have any problems on the road, they will not get a nasty surprise.
My friends here could not believe what was happening, I wish I had changed my licence at the same time when I changed my husbands licence, it was so simple. Copy of his passport, photographs, the application form along with his old licence, and proof of residency, I can only assume that because I applied in the week that the new procedures came in, the agency were not sure what they wanted.
When we bought our new car last June, we had to present our licences to the dealership,they took copies, I had my temporary slip of paper, and the dealership said that was OK because it was a valid paper, but they also said that the new law stipulates that you have to change your licence to a French one or the insurance was null and void if you had an accident! I can only say what happened to me, and I am not trying to confuse anyone, just to keep them safe. My motto is better to be safe than sorry.
I think what Maureen is saying and it's an anomaly of the EU and members, is that as you say Mike the licenses are pan EU but technically you cant for example hold a GB licence if you don't have a GB address so then you need one in the EU state you are actually living in?
Maureen,
It seems possible that your difficulties are local and don't apply everywhere in France. We recent recently helped a neighbor change her English license. Only required filling in a form and taking it, together with the old license and two photographs in the correct format, to the prefecture. They did not require a translation. Similarly, I suspect your insurers are being excessively officious. Any EU license is valid throughout the Union, though the police may insist you get a French license so they can add penalty points.
Both of ours are with the Préfecture but we have had none of most of this, certainly no birth certificates or anything from the DVLA, only a copy of the passports. Because she has the bit for a large vehicle with a trailer, my wife had to have a medical just last week. That was the end of all paperwork. As for the insurance, we checked on that ages ago and had no such problem. The UK licence was enough and since the paper version, just gone out, was still available that was used to see if we have any offences open but then having lived in France six years they would probably have been here and known. All offences are now on line for all who can legally have access, including the licencing authorities here. I think some of what you are saying Maureen might cause confusion.
Are you aware that if you have a UK license, and live here in France, you must change it for a French license. If you ask your insurance company they will tell you that your insurance is not valid if you do not apply for a French licence after the 1 year period. This became law in January 2014.
My husband changed his licence when he was 70, but a year last January, and after I found out that our insurance was no longer valid for me. I applied to change my licence, it has taken me just over 18 months to get my new licence, and would you believe it, the new licence arrived yesterday.
Because the new licensing laws changed here in France in January last year, the agency for the licence applications did not know what they were doing. If anyone needs a translator who is not expensive, I can give you contact details. I translated my husbands licence when he changed his to a French licence, but now it has to be a court approved and registered translator, even though I speak French.
You need to make sure that you have all your paperwork together and ready to go, because you will need a new copy of your birth certificate which must not be dated later than three months from the date of issue. You will need a certificate of entitlement to drive, this is issued by the DVLA, the cost is £5, and this must be translated by the approved translator. You have to act quickly because this can only be date stamped 1 month from the date of issue, or you have to apply for another one. They need the document of entitlement to drive from the DVLA, so that they know that you do not have any driving offences on your licence. Your UK licence is not enough.
I had to pay for the DVLA to fax the document so that the translator could work on it for me. Then when the original came in the post, I had to send it to her so that she could authorise it and validate if for the agency before they would accept it. You have to send all of this with proof that you live here, utility bills etc.
If you are using a UK address to obtain a UK driving licence and you get caught out, it is a fine of around £2,000 and a possible jail sentence. Once you apply for your French Licence you will receive a slip of paper from the licence authority, this will make you legal to drive here in France until you receive your new licence. Normally your town hall will accept your documents and issue you with this temporary licence.
Also sounds like a good reason to hang on to your Brit licence if you can.
Re the 70+ Brit licence, by the way, there's no mention of having to go through a medical; only that you have to declare if there's any medical reason you know of why you shouldn't be on the roads. Obviously, if there is, then you need to see a doctor and jump through the relevant hoops.
Having said that, about 10 years ago, my mother, then into her mid 80s, declared her macular degeneration eye problem - and they renewed her licence anyway. It was only after several times of ricocheting off the neighbourhood cars that my brother and I persuaded her to call it a day and sell her car. She was never a good driver when she was young and healthy, anyway. Not paying attention, she ran into the back of my car once and tried to blame me. There was no damage to mine but the grille fell off hers; I couldn't stop laughing - she was not amused.
Not exactly relevant to this discussion, but if you have an old French Permis de Conduire, you might want to take not of the following, which seems to be going the rounds on email. -
Gardez votre ancien permis carton !
> Surtout, gardez votre permis rose (papier cartonné) !
> J'ai vérifié et c'est en partie vrai Les permis datant d'avant 2013 resteront valables jusqu'en 2033. Ne demandez surtout pas, ou n'acceptez surtout pas leur remplacement. En effet, les nouveaux auront une limite de validité : 15 ans pour les permis A et B, 5 ans pour les autres.
Et il y aura visite médicale pour le renouvellement !
Information à transmettre à tous les anciens conducteurs !
ATTENTION NOUVEAU PERMIS : ils vont chercher à éliminer le plus de conducteurs possible Une de mes connaissances à demandé le remplacement de son vieux permis de conduire en carton rose en échange il a eu le nouveau permis sur carte magnétique format carte vitale ou carte bleue mais dessus apparait une durée de validité de 5 ans!! pour le renouveler vous devez passer une visite médicale obligatoire tous les 5 ans... alors si vous avez des soucis de santé gardez votre ancien permis cartonné qui, lui, est illimité!!
FAITES PASSER/TRANSMETTEZ
It has taken me 11 days to import my car from Germany! But it has taken me that long only because of having to wait for the once fortnightly morning when I'm free & the impôts & sous-préfecture are open.
It took a whole 3/4 of an hour counting the time in both places so I'm VERY happy, very quick & efficient & fuss-free even though it cost me an arm & a leg & I now have one of those horrible new number plates, DON'T like them at all.
I was 'caught' speeding whilst driving down from UK last year, by camera. Paid the fine and then I was invited to attend the Gendarmarie. ( the phone message said the Marie, I thought, so it took another message from an agitated gendarme to put me right) The direction from them was "Get a french license"
I took legal advice and after four days of research, my solicitor replied " If the gendarmes say get a license, then you must get one" The reason given is that points cannot be given or taken away from a UK license and anyway, your UK license gives a UK address which is not valid. I had no answer to that one and, as there seemed no disadvantage to changing my license, I went along with the direction. Two weeks later I was summoned again to the gendarmarie and they checked that I had a french license. OK, he said, "you are free to go".
I return to UK often and I have had no problem with hiring cars with a french driving license and a UK passport.
True, but how many people do it straight away? The more 'honest' of us exploit the six months as if we are just temporary unlike those who never bother.
Actually you must re register an imported car within one month if you are already a resident (as most of us are). If you visit France for more than 6 months you are considered resident so must then register your car.
I renewed mine back in December, hoping for 10 years peace of mind, but got it back only running until June 4th: the day before my 70th. Rats!!! I either have to re-apply for a 70+ licence or bite the proverbial bullet and get a Euro one.
It was nice that they couldn't endorse a British licence but it's time to stop winging it I guess.
For those whose hackles rise playing the roundabout - is he/isn't he turning - guessing game; here's a smile.
Chris, depends how long you have left on your photo card. When it expires unless you have a registered UK address with proof of residency the only answer is to get a French Licence.
What is most extraordinary is that the DVLA has been pushing for enforcement of controls within the UK and beginning to succeed then jumped up and down protesting when the all European (not just EU, Schengen or whatever) database was proposed in the Council of Europe. It seems they simply want to turn a blind eye to unregistered, untested UK cars once they are off their map. Mind you, the degree to which the six months in which to CT test, re-register and so on in France seems to be flaunted by so many UK and Netherlands vehicle owners hereabouts, I suspect it will only start moving fines between countries for the cash cow and more or less ignore the rest of it everywhere on the 'too much work' to enforce basis.
That is a big worry, Brian, & with legally used UK cars being traceable it is an incentive for those who have no social concience to continue to use an unregistered & therefore uninsured & untraceable car for as long as possible!
Sometimes there is a little justice in this world - a local Brit who has lived here for some years treated himself to a smart saloon car which he had spent some time choosing. It was his "weekend" car. It was last MOT'd in 2011 & had no UK insurance & as far as the windscreen showed, no french insurance either. Over the Christmas holidays he had an accident & the car was damaged beyond repair after ending up on its roof. Fortunately he was alone & no other car was involved. I saw the remains in my local scrap yard. He will have to say goodbye to a large amount of money but that is all.
Yep, at the prefecture where mine (not expired) is in the 'pipeline'. Go in person and do it over the desk, then they will send it to you.
Yep I think you are correct.
Our experience on changing licence,
Wife changed and it was easy. Firstly we discovered if your photo card is out of date you will have to attend a medical (well Sue had to). Go to your local office (ours is in with the treasury or whatever it is!). They provide a list of approved (LOL) Drs and you choose the most convenient (though none of ours were convenient, 40 mins!) and make and appoint.
They do a quick 5 min exam of blood pressure and eye test etc and complete the medical certificate. Apparently it was not that intrusive.
Take med doc back to your local office and complete the other docs with the usual proof of everything. They send the application off and you use the paper one in the meantime. The new licence arrived pretty soon after to be fair... about two weeks.
Personally I would never discard my paper licence... I will keep it tucked away even if it's no longer valid... but that's just me not trusting civil services