2020 was a difficult year due to Covid movement restrictions. If someone is just doing their best to get by and had been ensuring the vehicle was in the UK regularly enough and keeping its MoT up to date (and therefore insurance as can’t insure without MoT), then they could easily have gotten caught unable to access the UK last year. I renewed my MoT early twice - in one case 5 months early (so double paid MoT in 2 periods) so as not to find myself in this position. But I was lucky to be able to travel in narrow windows when travel back to the UK was feasible (and in one case, impossible any other way)
My aged UK-registered car has been condemned, I am only waiting a few months hoping it keeps going till I have the money to buy a French one.
With respect, I’ve had a pickup on my drive since 2011 that my partner did not have time to sort out signing over to me. I haven’t driven it on the road in that time because I’m not nuts. In case of ‘interested parties’ I took the numberplates off. Luckily I have now accepted one of the 3 offers I’ve had from equally curious French locals passing by over the years. So am getting closer to having the wherewithal to sort out a French car this year - just in time to land in the licence swap mess.
As @Codfanglers said, some of us are just doing the best we can. I do appreciate the rump of wealthier British expatriates we have in France, some of whom appear on Survive France, and am grateful to them because they’re probably a part of why France has kindly gone out of her way to provide resident Brits kindness under the WA.
I agree entirely - times have been difficult. And I hope you get your car situation sorted out soon, Karen.
I spent several years sharing my time more-or-less equally between France and the UK. During that time, I kept my UK car on UK plates, but it was fully MOTd, taxed and appropriately insured at every moment. When I made the commitment to spend more than 6 months of each year in France I started the French immatriculation and insurance process. But I kept the car fully UK legal until it had French plates and it had its CT and insurance stickers in the windscreen.
However, the people I’m referring to moved to their house in mid-2020 and are regularly seen driving around in one or other of their untaxed, untested, uninsured vehicles. I don’t know their circumstances but I really cannot see how those vehicles can be used legally on the road.
Moreover there are plenty of french drivers with dubious cars and no insurance It’s not a uniquely British thing. Cars are horrendously expensive and we all pay up because it’s part of the system I know I wince when paying for a service or control technique.
Cars are overpriced and micro controlled They’re not my favourite thing I would just find life very difficult without one (nearest bus stop is a 45 minute walk)
Just to be a little pedantic, I assume you’re certain they’ve not had a CT or french insurance (which I guess in this case you are as there would be windscreen stickers for both) but it is something to consider that obviously just because they haven’t done ALL of what they should, in some circumstances they may have done some. I had a CT and french insurance for a minute before I got my french plates, so it just reminded me.
They can’t be doing this correctly and they are taking a terrible risk not just for others, but for themselves/their families. I believe debt does pass down the generations in France…and is not obliterated when someone’s entire property or estate was insufficient to cover any damages awarded.
But even though some may be taking advantage stupidly in this way, I would guess a majority are having difficulty and not in a position to do otherwise but having committed to France they will intend to sort it as soon as they can.
Everyone has had a crappy 2020 and up to now not a great 2021. That does not however negate their responsibility both morally and legally to ensure the vehicle they are using is compliant with the rules of whatever country they find themselves living in. Uninsured drivers should be treated harshly by the law, what if your uninsured vehicle caused an accident where other people were maimed or killed ? Is that ok because it’s been a hard year and you’re not a ‘wealthy British expatriate’ … most of us survive on pension, worked income etc, not sat drinking champagne on the chateau terrace.
Rule are rules and being outside the law is breaking those rules. I dont think that telling the Impots that you intend to sort out your tax submission as soon as you can when the deadline has passed will get you anywhere just as telling the gendarmes that you intend to make a uk registered car legal that has just caused a fatal accident and the insurance that was supposed to be covering it is null and void.
Just to make things clear, my reference to UK registered vehicles relates to those who own and drive them here while clearly being French residents.
That’s the risk they take John. And if someone’s been driving round in an un-MoT’d and untaxed and uninsured van since 2011 then it looks like they’ve been deliberately flouting the law and potentially risking the safety of others so I would agree with you.
Other cases are more grey and I would agree with you there is a great danger from officialdom. Which again I agree with you is not the point that’s important - keeping things up to date and legal is for human life which is the most important.
Having had a variety of stations in my life I am not so dogmatic and would judge people very much on their intentions when these are credible though I know you and officialdom don’t take the same view.
How many of us are going to be technically without valid driving licences soon? There is no way Nantes is going to process 10,000-25,000 applications in 5 or less months.
Aren’t we told over and over that if you miss the deadline, or haven’t filed or done so correctly that the best thing to do is pop down to the tax office in person, say that you’ve had an issue and you’ll get it done ASAP, and generally make willing and seen genuine and you’ll often find that they’ll take a compassionate view and help you as much as they can? I’m nitpicking again (I must be in that sort of a mood today) but it seems to me that depending on the individual situation it’s perfectly possible, and so perhaps it’s perfectly possible if you genuinely were struggling and not just lazy or choosing not to (as I expect is the case for the majority) the authorities will take that into account. I wouldn’t risk it, but then I’m not in that situation anyway.
If there’s one thing I’ve discovered in my time on here, it’s that some people seem to see every single thing far more black and white than I do, this place makes social media seem considered and non judgemental at times You’re all such lovely interesting people it keeps me around, but gawd it must be exhausting to see everything in such a binary and be so certain all the time…
I’ve seen the effects that follow on from very serious collisions where the driver who caused the rtc was not insured. In consequence, I have no tolerance for people who choose to drive without the legally-required cover.
Yes, and I think fundamentally we’re arguing the same point. I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments. People with no insurance driving unsafe vehicles should feel the full force of the law. My only pushback was the notion (not from you) that anyone driving a British plated car, or bizarrely even a RHD car, has no tax, insurance, MOT and has a dangerous vehicle. As an idea that just seemed very ‘sledgehammer to crack a nut’. Anyway, it’s far too warm for me to attempt to make reasoned sense… I need a nice cold glass of something alcoholic!
When I started this topic I was referring to British registered cars owned and used by British who have made France their home. All these people have until 30th June to apply for residence under the WA (no ifs or buts).
My observation was that there are very few UK plated cars to be seen now suggesting that those who have used such cars have now completed the necessary transfer to be French road legal. According to other contributors to this topic there are still such vehicles on the roads here and some owned by the same people.
Maybe they know something I dont, which is quite possible, but I cannot see how a UK registered car can be legally used here. Who is the registered keeper and legal owner, what does it say in the log book, certainly not a French address.
Rules are rules and we all take liberties with them from time to time with the possible consequence having an affect on our own life. Driving a car on the road, whether legal or not, brings with it a responsibility to be mindful of other road users. Unfortunately accidents happen and can bring many levels of trauma to those involved. If one of the vehicles involved isnt road legal for whatever reason and it belongs to you, how would you feel?
Nothing wrong with RHD cars as long as they are properly French registered. We have both LHD and RHD and after a lifetime of driving for a living in the UK, I still prefer Driving a RHD car here.
I never enjoyed driving RHD vehicles in LHD countries and vice versa as I found judging distance from the centreline of the road tricky. It was particularly dicey for me living out in the sticks in 47 where the minor roads wind their ways up and down hills to cross all the little valleys.
Our old RHD car went to be scrapped here years ago. Driving on Nationals behind juggernauts, and trying to overtake, was highly stressful. But on winding country lanes it was perfect for judging the clearance on the right hand side. A rocky wall, a vertiginous drop, or a hidden ditch was no problem. There are local roads I now avoid in our LHD due to the car being a bit wider and the fear of scratching the bodywork (and getting found out).
You’re all such lovely interesting people it keeps me around, but gawd it must be exhausting to see everything in such a binary and be so certain all the time…